Gustav O wrote:Krop --> I must admit that your comments regarding Preziosi make me wonder why you make them would you care/be able to shed some more light on the topic?
Oscar wrote:All of which makes Stoner's decision to move look rather more like a necessity than an opportunistic one and his steadfast lack of any condemnation of Ducati fairly graciously diplomatic - not a quality that most would ascribe to him. That probably doesn't mean a hill of beans to Marlboro who would happily sell cancer to their own firstborn but I suggest that somewhere further down the track when distance from events lends perspective, his exit from Ducati will be viewed as done with dignity intact all around.
Kropotkin wrote:While Stoner was winning, Ducati could say to the other riders "Casey's winning, it must be your fault." While Rossi is struggling, they can no longer say it is the rider.
Desmo44 wrote:Kropotkin wrote:While Stoner was winning, Ducati could say to the other riders "Casey's winning, it must be your fault." While Rossi is struggling, they can no longer say it is the rider.
Why not? It may not say much for Preziosi's baby, but if Rossi does have problems with the Ducati, Stoner's status goes off the chart.
I honestly believe that the challenge at Ducati is far greater than the challenge at Yamaha. Rossi is the right rider and he has the right crew around him to effect the change, but the Ducati is fundamentally flawed, and until Preziosi accepts that, that bike isn't going anywhere. Rossi and JB will provide the right data, but the question is, will Preziosi listen?
Kropotkin wrote:Stoner loves the people at Ducati, just not the decisions they made with respect to the pace of development of the bike. Stoner is intensely loyal as a person, and so is refusing to bad-mouth the company.
Oscar wrote:...there is a considerably relieved (in the mechanical sense of stress) upper headstock fitting than previously on Rossi's Ducati, plus a very much changed upper triple clamp...http://www.superbikeplanet.com/image/2010/motogp/valencia/test/3/6.jpg
Kropotkin wrote:Because Valentino Rossi has nine world titles - one still reasonably fresh - that he can point to and say that he didn't get them free with a tank of gas.
sir_nj wrote:This might be opening a can of woop arse but what if the question is not if Preziosi will listen or respond appropriately, what if it's can he respond and can he respond in time with the resources they have?
Let's assume he knows there is a serious problem (the stats says there is, how can you have only 1rider out of 4 with WCs that wins?).
Let's assume he is willing to use more conventional approaches to solve the problem (maybe not totally conventional since they would likely revert back to trellis rather than box beam).
If the assumptions are correct, then can Ducati build a suitable (and I mean one that is semi-competitive) chassis that will be ready from the get go and one that doesn't biff the rider down the road but also has enough adjustment to end up being very competitive fairly quickly? If they aren't able to do this then I can see why they would bring a whole bag of new front ends to try.
“Are they having front-end trouble?"
Rusty Bucket USA wrote:One of you "founders" here pointed out during a practice session a few years back, that he (it wasn't lucy) had figured out that Rossi was doing "sector practice", and intentionally never led any of the sessions. I don't remember which race it was, but Rossi went on to skunk it up and make everyone else look out of place. I've tried to keep that memory fresh ever since.
Thornado wrote:My thought is that a chassis problem is the best problem to have with the current rules. A slow Suzuki style engine or poor electronics would be harder to fix with the limited number of engines the teams are allowed. They can throw a new chassis at the bike every weekend until they get it right.
WayneG wrote:This may not the case if they stick with the Carbon Fibre chassis simply due to the manufacturing time. I'm no expert in working with CF but read recently that a single set of CF brake disks takes between 3 and 4 months to manufacture from scratch.
Oscar wrote:WayneG wrote:This may not the case if they stick with the Carbon Fibre chassis simply due to the manufacturing time. I'm no expert in working with CF but read recently that a single set of CF brake disks takes between 3 and 4 months to manufacture from scratch.
Wayne - making C/f brakes is a very different process from making a c/f matrix lay-up. The brakes are baked for many days at temps around 900C or more and the carbon 'fibres' are created by the baking process. A c/f matrix lay-up almost always uses pre-preg c/f 'cloth', which is laid up and then autoclaved for maybe 24 hours at a constant temp (typically something like 50C - 80C) and pressure to 'post cure' - the heat and time plus the weave, fibre orientation and thickness all have major effects on the strength and stiffness of the resultant structure. With finite element analysis software you can quite quickly develop a model of a different layup and determine its characteristics.
Ducati could rip off a significant number of 'chassis' of different characteristics in quite a short time. However, that's still in the realm of 'by god and by guess' if they don't KNOW what characteristics they need and only testing is going to provide that answer.
It's a constant diatribe of mine that I believe the BS tyres have more variability than BS is happy to admit, and with the basically fairly uncompliant nature of c/f, a small variable is likely to be reflected in an 'out of tolerance' response more readily than for an alloy frame. Short of making the Ducs into flexi-flyers I suspect that the c/f 'chassis' idea will remain one that is theoretically good but vulnerable to quite small changes in external factors. Racing yacht masts and Boeing Dreamliners are but two examples of the complexities of the medium..
jihem wrote:While I'm totally convinced Rossi and team have been promessed anything they want from Ducati for this year too, how much changes can we expect for a bike formula (800cc) that is doomed to more or less disappear end of the year ?
Rusty Bucket USA wrote:
One of you "founders" here pointed out during a practice session a few years back, that he (it wasn't lucy) had figured out that Rossi was doing "sector practice", and intentionally never led any of the sessions.
TwoStroke Institute wrote:So Preziosi is in the frame if the GP11 is no good?
Rusty Bucket USA wrote:...if you're pursuing a wide palette of data, you have to stay focused on that mission, and not get caught up in other people's races.
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