After 2011, who will be the GOATEE ?

[e-esQue]

It is well known that the Honda tended to have stability issues and chatter problems under braking and turn in. All the works Honda riders made comments about this at various times during the year. Also Dovizioso commented after the Valencia tests that the Yamaha was better under brakes and turn in than the Honda.

The China race in 2007 was only resolved after Rossi made a mistake on lap 16. Until then the outcome was uncertain, because it looked like there was a chance that Rossi could outbrake Stoner at the end of the long straight on the final lap. The difference in lap times was insignificant, just 0.027 of a second in Stoner's favor.

Not surprising the Honda-riders would want to make the bike appear to be worse than it is.

Clearly you didn't watch China 2007 close enough. My point was exactly that the pace was similar, but it was rendered meaningless bc of Casey's Ducati pulling 50-60 meters on him every time on the back straight. It was clear after Casey got the lead that he would never be beaten as there was of course no chance for Rossi to do anything from that far back. The only way Rossi would have won that race would have been by barging inside of Casey into an apex and pushing him wide losing .5-1second.

I urge you to watch that race a again if you can, it was a nice one.

[tom]

It is well known that the Honda tended to have stability issues and chatter problems under braking and turn in. All the works Honda riders made comments about this at various times during the year. Also Dovizioso commented after the Valencia tests that the Yamaha was better under brakes and turn in than the Honda.

The China race in 2007 was only resolved after Rossi made a mistake on lap 16. Until then the outcome was uncertain, because it looked like there was a chance that Rossi could outbrake Stoner at the end of the long straight on the final lap. The difference in lap times was insignificant, just 0.027 of a second in Stoner's favor.

Not surprising the Honda-riders would want to make the bike appear to be worse than it is.

Clearly you didn't watch China 2007 close enough. My point was exactly that the pace was similar, but it was rendered meaningless bc of Casey's Ducati pulling 50-60 meters on him every time on the back straight. It was clear after Casey got the lead that he would never be beaten as there was of course no chance for Rossi to do anything from that far back. The only way Rossi would have won that race would have been by barging inside of Casey into an apex and pushing him wide losing .5-1second.

I urge you to watch that race a again if you can, it was a nice one.

e-esQue every bike has its strengths and weaknesses. Honda riders pointing out a weakness may well be just that and not some political or publicity play. They have also pointed out strengths, I recall Casey describing the Honda as being amazing out of corners while he said the Ducati was actually better under brakes just prior to tip in. It may just be that the riders are all telling an identical little fib... but perhaps its the truth, after all who else's word are we going to take on this?

I'm really not sure what you point is regarding the 2007 China race. The bikes had near identical fastest laps, one was better on the straight by a country mile, the other better in the corners by a country mile. One bike had a rider on board that could make the maximum of that bikes strengths, the other had a rider that could ride around obvious weaknesses. I'm really not sure how this ties into your argument, maybe I'm missing something.

Rossi's marked decline in results coincided with three events, 1.the abolition of overnight specials, 2.the introduction of control tyres and 3.the appearance of DP, CS and JL. Rossi has rode many many brilliant Races in the period you say he declined as a rider, he has won races he really shouldn't have won through shear skill, determination and his usual brilliant race craft. I can not see anything to suggest that Rossi has declined as a rider, he is still a young man, and carrying no more injuries than the rest of the pack. I think i can even recall him saying after some races in 2010 that he was riding better than he ever has ridden.

[motogpmd]

It is well known that the Honda tended to have stability issues and chatter problems under braking and turn in. All the works Honda riders made comments about this at various times during the year. Also Dovizioso commented after the Valencia tests that the Yamaha was better under brakes and turn in than the Honda.

The China race in 2007 was only resolved after Rossi made a mistake on lap 16. Until then the outcome was uncertain, because it looked like there was a chance that Rossi could outbrake Stoner at the end of the long straight on the final lap. The difference in lap times was insignificant, just 0.027 of a second in Stoner's favor.

Not surprising the Honda-riders would want to make the bike appear to be worse than it is.

Clearly you didn't watch China 2007 close enough. My point was exactly that the pace was similar, but it was rendered meaningless bc of Casey's Ducati pulling 50-60 meters on him every time on the back straight. It was clear after Casey got the lead that he would never be beaten as there was of course no chance for Rossi to do anything from that far back. The only way Rossi would have won that race would have been by barging inside of Casey into an apex and pushing him wide losing .5-1second.

I urge you to watch that race a again if you can, it was a nice one.

And not surprising that Lorenzo tried to make the Yamaha appear worse than it was, complaining several times about the Yamaha's deficiencies, mainly a lack of power. I happen to believe both groups of riders, as their comments confirm what we could see on the track.

As for China 2007, I will ignore your disparaging remark about my observations. The fact is that Rossi was able to pass Stoner several times at various points around the circuit, including under brakes at the end of the long back straight. It is true that the Ducati had the advantage in top speed, about 8 kph. However, if Rossi had been able to force Stoner into a mistake, which he tried so hard to do, Rossi could have pulled a gap and won the race. There was no foregone conclusion to this race, despite what you claim. Stoner said that it was one of the hardest races of the year. In fact it was Rossi who made the mistake. When attempting another pass on Stoner at the end of the back straight on lap 16 Rossi ran off the track, allowing Hopkins through also. By the time Rossi got back past Hopkins Stoner had pulled too big a gap, and so won the race. So in the end the race result was not about Ducati top speed, it was about rider error.

[motogpmd]

Rossi's marked decline in results coincided with three events, 1.the abolition of overnight specials, 2.the introduction of control tyres and 3.the appearance of DP, CS and JL. Rossi has rode many many brilliant Races in the period you say he declined as a rider, he has won races he really shouldn't have won through shear skill, determination and his usual brilliant race craft. I can not see anything to suggest that Rossi has declined as a rider, he is still a young man, and carrying no more injuries than the rest of the pack. I think i can even recall him saying after some races in 2010 that he was riding better than he ever has ridden.

Exactly. In my opinion Rossi's two greatest MotoGP championships were 2004 and 2008. 2004 because Rossi, Burgess and Furasawa between them were able to take a new design of Yamaha and win the championship in their first year together. 2008 because Rossi was able to come back from his big defeat in 2007 and beat Stoner, also a very special rider, in a straight fight. Rossi himself said that Stoner and Pedrosa forced him to raise his game in 2008. That is the complete opposite of a rider in decline.

[e-esQue]

As for China 2007, I will ignore your disparaging remark about my observations. The fact is that Rossi was able to pass Stoner several times at various points around the circuit, including under brakes at the end of the long back straight. It is true that the Ducati had the advantage in top speed, about 8 kph. However, if Rossi had been able to force Stoner into a mistake, which he tried so hard to do, Rossi could have pulled a gap and won the race. There was no foregone conclusion to this race, despite what you claim. Stoner said that it was one of the hardest races of the year. In fact it was Rossi who made the mistake. When attempting another pass on Stoner at the end of the back straight on lap 16 Rossi ran off the track, allowing Hopkins through also. By the time Rossi got back past Hopkins Stoner had pulled too big a gap, and so won the race. So in the end the race result was not about Ducati top speed, it was about rider error.

I don't know why you continue to argue about that race when clearly you don't have the correct recollection about it. Rossi never passed Stoner on the brakes into the hairpin, once he ran very wide and once he ran too wide to the grass and lost 3 seconds. He was never even close to being in position to try anything realistic there bc Stoner was alway at least 20-30 meters ahead of him into the braking zone with the ridiculous straight line speed difference (that and Qatar was the biggest difference on time taken to get from start to finish of a straight between two bikes I've ever witnessed in MotoGP). Consequently, Rossi spent half a lap catching the gap Stoner pulled in the straight up and then sometimes was able to pull of a pass into the left-hander before the long right leading to the back straight; move that was obviously irrelevant bc Stoner blasted back past him with no trouble at all.

I repeat, Rossi's only chance of ever winning that race was Stoner getting blocked in lap 1 after being in 4th after the first corners. That didn't happen considering Stoner moved into 2nd in the straight and then in to the lead in the front straight starting lap 2. After that the scenario I mentioned happened and Rossi was never within a chance of winning, unless of course he would have made a pass that made Stoner crash/lose a lot of time.

[e-esQue]

tom, I mentioned that as a good example of getting snookered as someone else put it; one bike is faster on acceleration and straight, one is better in the corners but the rider can't use that strength when behind a bike of the former strength, which can always be used.

Exactly. In my opinion Rossi's two greatest MotoGP championships were 2004 and 2008. 2004 because Rossi, Burgess and Furasawa between them were able to take a new design of Yamaha and win the championship in their first year together. 2008 because Rossi was able to come back from his big defeat in 2007 and beat Stoner, also a very special rider, in a straight fight. Rossi himself said that Stoner and Pedrosa forced him to raise his game in 2008. That is the complete opposite of a rider in decline.

I would agree. 2008 was an incredible effort of tactics/superior racecraft/maturity to beat Casey at the deciding battle and take the title; he understood his somewhat declined ability and bid his time. 2005 was probably the most astounding year results-wise considering his domination with the 2nd best bike.

BTW, still haven't watched Rossi's starts from 2004 compared to 2003? Welkom, Mugello, Catalunya, Assen, Sepang, PI just to name a few? I'm sure even you can see the difference.

[motogpmd]

tom, I mentioned that as a good example of getting snookered as someone else put it; one bike is faster on acceleration and straight, one is better in the corners but the rider can't use that strength when behind a bike of the former strength, which can always be used.

Exactly. In my opinion Rossi's two greatest MotoGP championships were 2004 and 2008. 2004 because Rossi, Burgess and Furasawa between them were able to take a new design of Yamaha and win the championship in their first year together. 2008 because Rossi was able to come back from his big defeat in 2007 and beat Stoner, also a very special rider, in a straight fight. Rossi himself said that Stoner and Pedrosa forced him to raise his game in 2008. That is the complete opposite of a rider in decline.

I would agree. 2008 was an incredible effort of tactics/superior racecraft/maturity to beat Casey at the deciding battle and take the title; he understood his somewhat declined ability and bid his time. 2005 was probably the most astounding year results-wise considering his domination with the 2nd best bike.

BTW, still haven't watched Rossi's starts from 2004 compared to 2003? Welkom, Mugello, Catalunya, Assen, Sepang, PI just to name a few? I'm sure even you can see the difference.

We shall have to agree to disagree, both about China 2007 and Rossi's allegedly declining abilities. I mean, you talk about "incredible effort of tactic/superior racecraft/maturity"" in 2008, but you still insist that Rossi was in decline. Don't you see the contradiction? Perhaps you think Rossi was already in decline after winning his first world championship. Seeing that riders tend to reach their peak in their early thirties, I don't know why you think Rossi is an exception. And I don't know of any expert opinion that supports your views.

In China, because the two bikes were doing identical lap times Rossi was always in with a chance as long as he could stay close and pressure Stoner. Difficult sure, but not impossible, especially for someone like Rossi, up against a much less experienced rider. In fact, you contradict yourself. You say that the race was foregone conclusion from lap 1, then you admit that Rossi could have won if he had made a pass on Stoner and caused him to lose time, which is exactly what I have been saying all along. Rossi has never held back from making super aggressive moves on other riders.

And the 2005 Yamaha was at least as good as the Honda, maybe better.

But you are entitled to your opinion. I just think it is more sensible to base an opinion on facts, rather than trying to make facts suit a curious theory not supported by any experts in the sport.

[e-esQue]

We shall have to agree to disagree, both about China 2007 and Rossi's allegedly declining abilities. I mean, you talk about "incredible effort of tactic/superior racecraft/maturity"" in 2008, but you still insist that Rossi was in decline. Don't you see the contradiction? Perhaps you think Rossi was already in decline after winning his first world championship. Seeing that riders tend to reach their peak in their early thirties, I don't know why you think Rossi is an exception. And I don't know of any expert opinion that supports your views.

In China, because the two bikes were doing identical lap times Rossi was always in with a chance as long as he could stay close and pressure Stoner. Difficult sure, but not impossible, especially for someone like Rossi, up against a much less experienced rider. In fact, you contradict yourself. You say that the race was foregone conclusion from lap 1, then you admit that Rossi could have won if he had made a pass on Stoner and caused him to lose time, which is exactly what I have been saying all along. Rossi has never held back from making super aggressive moves on other riders.

And the 2005 Yamaha was at least as good as the Honda, maybe better.

But you are entitled to your opinion. I just think it is more sensible to base an opinion on facts, rather than trying to make facts suit a curious theory not supported by any experts in the sport.

Rossi as a rider/racer was on the decline in 2008 for the reasons I've explained many times now, and the 800s were detrimental to his strengths, meaning he had to take a more analytical approach to his title run. He couldn't attack every race like few years before. 2009 and how the season unfolded was a clear testament to his declined abilities, which still were just enough to clinch the title though.

I don't think Rossi was on decline after 2001. IMO his peak was 2004-2005 which I'd say is pretty common held perception. It's interesting to see how many people around here think Rossi is better than ever, which is something I've very rarely, if never heard anywhere else. And also I don't think many would agree with your opinion that Yamaha was better than Honda in 2005, sure it was much much closer than in the previous year but definitely not on par.

About China 2007, that was exactly my point. You think a deliberate move which makes your opponent go wide or crash is racing? I don't, and that's why I said the race was over after lap 1 base on the parameters an average fan would have for MotoGP. Rossi could just as well have left his breaking 50 meters late on the backstraight and rammed Casey into the back and take his chances on staying up, but I don't know what that has to do with racing. You seem to have different rules though.

[motogpmd]

Rossi as a rider/racer was on the decline in 2008 for the reasons I've explained many times now, and the 800s were detrimental to his strengths, meaning he had to take a more analytical approach to his title run. He couldn't attack every race like few years before. 2009 and how the season unfolded was a clear testament to his declined abilities, which still were just enough to clinch the title though.

I don't think Rossi was on decline after 2001. IMO his peak was 2004-2005 which I'd say is pretty common held perception. It's interesting to see how many people around here think Rossi is better than ever, which is something I've very rarely, if never heard anywhere else. And also I don't think many would agree with your opinion that Yamaha was better than Honda in 2005, sure it was much much closer than in the previous year but definitely not on par.

About China 2007, that was exactly my point. You think a deliberate move which makes your opponent go wide or crash is racing? I don't, and that's why I said the race was over after lap 1 base on the parameters an average fan would have for MotoGP. Rossi could just as well have left his breaking 50 meters late on the backstraight and rammed Casey into the back and take his chances on staying up, but I don't know what that has to do with racing. You seem to have different rules though.

I'd be interested to see a single quote from any knowledgeable person supporting your view that Rossi was in decline after 2005. Frankly I think your view that a guy in just his mid twenties, one of the sport's great racers, went into a major decline thereafter is just bizarre. My impression is that you are trying to find some way to justify Rossi being beaten regularly by the three younger aliens, instead of acknowledging just how good those guys are. Rossi himself said that Stoner and the others had raised the standard of competition in MotoGP.

As for deliberate moves to force someone wide, or make them crash, have you ever watched Rossi race? Doesn't sound like it. Rossi is known for aggressive moves. Jerez 2005, Motegi 2005, Laguna Seca 2008, Motegi 2010, Jerez 2011, the list goes on. And in China Rossi was able to pass Stoner at the end of the long straight without running into him. Of course in that case he overdid it, but even the commentators in the broadcast I saw commented that Rossi could have pulled that off if he had waited a few more laps.

[e-esQue]

I'd be interested to see a single quote from any knowledgeable person supporting your view that Rossi was in decline after 2005. Frankly I think your view that a guy in just his mid twenties, one of the sport's great racers, went into a major decline thereafter is just bizarre. My impression is that you are trying to find some way to justify Rossi being beaten regularly by the three younger aliens, instead of acknowledging just how good those guys are. Rossi himself said that Stoner and the others had raised the standard of competition in MotoGP.

As for deliberate moves to force someone wide, or make them crash, have you ever watched Rossi race? Doesn't sound like it. Rossi is known for aggressive moves. Jerez 2005, Motegi 2005, Laguna Seca 2008, Motegi 2010, Jerez 2011, the list goes on. And in China Rossi was able to pass Stoner at the end of the long straight without running into him. Of course in that case he overdid it, but even the commentators in the broadcast I saw commented that Rossi could have pulled that off if he had waited a few more laps.

Why do you talk in extremes all the time? "Major decline"? No, just a slight natural decline from one's peak abilities throughout the years that happens o everyone, nothing special about it. Whether it affected him in his battle against the top 3, at least in the last 2-3 seasons, of course. It's only natural and I don't find anything interesting about it.

So in your opinion Rossi deliberately forced his opponent wide instead of just trying to arrive at the apex first in ALL of those races? Wow, I think I've found someone who dislikes Rossi even more than I do. I think there's a pretty clear difference in aggressive moves that are bordering on reckless, but made to win the corner rather than anything else (Rossis's MO throughout his career) and a move that is only done to to make the opponent lose a major amount of time, make him go off track or crash. Something like Capi on Harada back in 250s. I don't think Rossi has ever been guilty of doing that, unless you want to think he really had it in for Melandri in Motegi 2005. If move like that is made the rider should have serious penalties brought upon him.

I still don't get why you are so caught up at China 2007. I only used that as an example of the snooker-reference since it was the first thing that came to my mind. Rossi never passed Casey to the hairpin and he never was even close to doing that. He made 2 do-or-die moves there, once he went right at the edge of track on the outside and once he went to the grass and lost 3 seconds. Those aren't passes, he never was passing there and bc of that the race was determined at the end of lap 1. If you remember correctly about your commentators I can only say I'm glad I didn't have to listen to them.

[motogpmd]

I'd be interested to see a single quote from any knowledgeable person supporting your view that Rossi was in decline after 2005. Frankly I think your view that a guy in just his mid twenties, one of the sport's great racers, went into a major decline thereafter is just bizarre. My impression is that you are trying to find some way to justify Rossi being beaten regularly by the three younger aliens, instead of acknowledging just how good those guys are. Rossi himself said that Stoner and the others had raised the standard of competition in MotoGP.

As for deliberate moves to force someone wide, or make them crash, have you ever watched Rossi race? Doesn't sound like it. Rossi is known for aggressive moves. Jerez 2005, Motegi 2005, Laguna Seca 2008, Motegi 2010, Jerez 2011, the list goes on. And in China Rossi was able to pass Stoner at the end of the long straight without running into him. Of course in that case he overdid it, but even the commentators in the broadcast I saw commented that Rossi could have pulled that off if he had waited a few more laps.

Why do you talk in extremes all the time? "Major decline"? No, just a slight natural decline from one's peak abilities throughout the years that happens o everyone, nothing special about it. Whether it affected him in his battle against the top 3, at least in the last 2-3 seasons, of course. It's only natural and I don't find anything interesting about it.

So in your opinion Rossi deliberately forced his opponent wide instead of just trying to arrive at the apex first in ALL of those races? Wow, I think I've found someone who dislikes Rossi even more than I do. I think there's a pretty clear difference in aggressive moves that are bordering on reckless, but made to win the corner rather than anything else (Rossis's MO throughout his career) and a move that is only done to to make the opponent lose a major amount of time, make him go off track or crash. Something like Capi on Harada back in 250s. I don't think Rossi has ever been guilty of doing that, unless you want to think he really had it in for Melandri in Motegi 2005. If move like that is made the rider should have serious penalties brought upon him.

I still don't get why you are so caught up at China 2007. I only used that as an example of the snooker-reference since it was the first thing that came to my mind. Rossi never passed Casey to the hairpin and he never was even close to doing that. He made 2 do-or-die moves there, once he went right at the edge of track on the outside and once he went to the grass and lost 3 seconds. Those aren't passes, he never was passing there and bc of that the race was determined at the end of lap 1. If you remember correctly about your commentators I can only say I'm glad I didn't have to listen to them.

You are the one who made a big deal of this alleged decline in Rossi's abilities. According to you on the other thread "Rossi is (a) far inferior rider than he was 6-7 years (ago)". I think this is a ludicrous claim, but now you are back tracking, saying you meant "a slight decline". I have simply said that there was no decline, that Rossi if anything got stronger, as he needed to do, as the competition got a whole lot hotter when Stoner and the others arrived. Most people would agree that Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa are much stronger riders than Biaggi, Capirossi, Gibernau, Melandri, Roberts Jnr, Checa, Barros and Hayden. The stats overwhelmingly support that, as I already pointed out.

If you were talking about only 2011 you might have a case, but certainly there is no evidence of any decline before Rossi's accident in 2010.

I don't dislike Rossi at all, and in this case of allegedly declining abilities I am defending him. I simply pointed out that Rossi is known for aggressive moves, and he himself justifies it by saying that the current crop of riders are wimps. Also, perhaps you have forgotten that Rossi actually ran into Gibernau at Jerez in 2005, causing damage to Gibernau's bike, a very similar move to Capirossi on Harada.

Part of the process of any overtaking move is hopefully to mess up the other rider's line so that the other rider cannot counter attack. Of course Rossi is deliberately forcing the other rider off line, there is nothing wrong with that, as long as you give the other rider racing room and don't crash into him. This is what Rossi was attempting in China when he overtook Stoner under brakes down the inside, but the move failed because Rossi went in too hot and ran wide immediately, allowing Stoner to reclaim first position.

The perfect example of what I am talking about is Stoner's pass on Pedrosa at Laguna Seca in 2011. This was an aggressive but fair move into the cork screw. Stoner dived down the inside of Pedrosa, forcing Pedrosa to sit up, miss the apex of the first corner and therefore enter the right hand section off the ideal line. Stoner himself recently acknowledged that he learnt from Rossi to be more aggressive with his overtaking moves.

[Zaphod]

..... You think a deliberate move which makes your opponent go wide or crash is racing?

Go wide, or run off line......yes. I don't think ( with very few exceptions) anyone of these riders intends to make the other crash.


That sums up about 80 to 90% of all passes I've ever seen in 250's, somewhere between 94.5 and 98.9% of all passes I've seen in 125's and, although (sometimes ) more subtle, quite a few passes in the premier class.

Unless the pass is completed around the "outside", then the rider being passed up the inside is always going to be forced to alter his line from the trajectory/arc that he had previously selected, costing him more time than he would otherwise have expended during a particular lap.How much he has to change his line/lose time would depend on how late/desperate the move being put on him was, and his own sheer bloody mindedness/skill in being able to hold as close a line as possible to his originaly selected trajectory.

Hence, for example, why two people battling for position lose ground to the guy one position back from them........he's cutting lap times, while they are carving each other up. (an exception to this rule would be Hockenhiem........but that is no longer a problem )

First they Practise. (How fast is the other guy looking ?)

Then Qualify. ( Can I get my bike to go as fast, or faster than the other guy's bike)

Then Race. ( If I can get away with him, I reckon I can stuff it up the inside at turn "X", and while he's getting his shit back together, make a break for it, if not.......repeat as required)

I've yet to see a rider overtake someone and be thinking "Golly gee, I hope I haven't ruined his lap for him...... "t would be a shame if he wasn't right behind me , so as to continue our duel."

[L34]

HRC just posted this on twitter
http://twitpic.com/8gt42a

[tom]

HRC just posted this on twitter
http://twitpic.com/8gt42a

I'm 95% sure that graphic came from an issue of Australian Motorcycle News perhaps about a couple of months back.

[Zaphod]

Hmmmm, last comment say's "Stoner still bitter"

I think it should say "HRC still bitter", they may be laughing now...............but they weren't for a lo-o-ng, long time.........

Stats can be made to say anything......they negleted to include "Races missed through injury", that would put the win percentage into a bit more perspective. Stoner might still come out on top, but it would have been closer.

[L34]

Im suprised that tweet is still up.
HRC said they were going to take it down as it has caused a real sh!t fight between
them and the Italian journo's and VR's fans.

I think we can be thankful to be watching an era where (to me) there are 4 "masters" of the
beasts racing.
VR = smooth as silk and can almost always pull off the impossible pass.
CS= @rse clenching scary fast through corners.
JL= looks like he is on rails while lapping at near record pace lap after lap.
DP= for a bloke so small able to ride so incredible fast...on his day, faster than all of them.
They are just my opinions on how I see them.

[L34]

Stats can be made to say anything......they negleted to include "Races missed through injury", that would put the win percentage into a bit more perspective. Stoner might still come out on top, but it would have been closer.

It says race starts, Casey 100, Val 101.

[WayneG]

Im suprised that tweet is still up.
HRC said they were going to take it down as it has caused a real sh!t fight between
them and the Italian journo's and VR's fans.

Thy took their original tweet down but that doesn't delete the thousands of retweets that people have made. They live forever.
What an absolutely stupid PR move by HRC. I'm sure it must have been done by an individual as I can't see HRC sanctioning such a move. There may be an interesting meeting at HRC today.

[Tourn46]

Thy took their original tweet down but that doesn't delete the thousands of retweets that people have made. They live forever.
What an absolutely stupid PR move by HRC. I'm sure it must have been done by an individual as I can't see HRC sanctioning such a move. There may be an interesting meeting at HRC today.

Has nobody else thought that most of those stats represent Ducati, not HRC... what a ridiculous thing to post.

I find it really weird that a team would try to belittle a rider... it's one thing with riders having a war of words, but a manufacturer coming out with that is just mind-boggling. I think someone will be leaving the boardroom with a sore backside.

[WayneG]

To be fair I don't believe it was a deliberate attempt to belittle Rossi. I think it was more than likely a misguided attempt to continue the light hearted banter that was well received between HRC and Yamaha at the last test. It was however a stupid mistake coming from a HRC official and I'm sure steps will be taen to prevent a reoccurence.

[motor]

extremely strange and unusual move by HRC...I would consider it more probable that someone hacked that twitter account and put this up

[Tourn46]

To be fair I don't believe it was a deliberate attempt to belittle Rossi.

Yes, sorry, I don't believe it was a deliberate attempt either... but it comes across in that manner.

Even if it is a continuation of the Honda Vs Yamaha banter, it's still very odd for Honda to use that spread of data seeing as 80% of that relates to Stoner on a Ducati and 20% of it Rossi on a Ducati.

[WayneG]

That pic has been around for a while which is why I think it was an individuals poor attempt at humour. I doubt very much that Honda would have sanctioned it in any way.

[Gustav O]

That pic has been around for a while which is why I think it was an individuals poor attempt at humour. I doubt very much that Honda would have sanctioned it in any way.

It was posted on their official twitter channel so maybe not sanctioned but still official.

[WayneG]

It was posted on their official twitter channel so maybe not sanctioned but still official.

Absolutely agree, I'm sure their are many red faces at HRC / Honda today, and probably a search for a new tweeterer.