Ducati goings on. Part 2.

[dave_m]

Fingers crossed they make some improvements with the engine parts... according to Alex Briggs on Twitter they fitted 2 new engines this evening... whole new engines... don't know... but must have some differences, one can assume it is relating to the power delivery.

New engines doesn't actually mean very much, as they would do that even to test the chassis only. It's all about not putting miles on the 6 engines in their season allocation.

The race was 11 secs faster this year than last, but Rossi's time was slightly less than 4 secs. quicker than his time last year - riding with the dud shoulder, third race in on the unacceptable first iteration (if I remember correctly ) GP11, the bike on which Rossi crashed (I think) more times than ever in his career. So, yes - it's progress, but perhaps not at a level that gives rise to joyous celebration throughout the length and breadth of the kingdom.

I'd actually look at it a little differently, as Estoril 2011 showed the GP11 wasn't competitive for Nicky Hayden either. NIcky had the same race time in both 2010 and 2011 at Estoril, but was 5th and 27 seconds off the win on the GP10 and 9th and 54 seconds off the win on the GP11. Based on the practice times, it's reasonable to assume Hayden would have been fairly close to Rossi and that would actually be an improvement.

I also don't think Rossi's shoulder injury actually held him back very much on the Ducati, because the bike didn't ever react the way he wanted when he tried to push it to the limit. I'm pretty sure Rossi didn't start the season crashing all the time, but went a few races, got healthier, tried to push and then couldn't keep the rubber side down. It also now seems that Ducati have finally solved the lowside problem that plagued them with the carbon fiber monocoque design. I still think we need to see several consecutive solid performances by the Ducati team during dry race weekends before we get an idea of what the bike can do. Based on the bikes history, one decent weekend doesn't necessarily translate to the next.

[Zaphod]

Ahhh......keep the kicking going.

Good on him. Hard to have his "magians" ride from the back to the front when you have very little confidence in the bike actualy doing what you expect it to do. Stoner would be miles faster than he is without chatter, though it's one fault, that you know is going to occur when you push the bike to that point. Under that point, and maybe even during to such a talent, it's one problem that you can probably predict to a certain degree, and ride accordingly.

For all the Duc riders, it's hard to push to a point of instability when the machine has so many, that you don't know which one is going to bite first.
As much as Stoner still outshone everyone on the same bike in results in 2010, he was suffering from the same machine unpredictability, fell off, finished poorly in some races ( by his standards) and was generally unhappy.........apart from the joy of knowing he had a Honda contract in waiting.

Credit to all of them.

Good to Rossi looking somewhat cheerful. A few more confidence building excercises like that and things may start to turn around exponentially.

Fingers crossed.

[dave_m]

So Monday looks to be rainy and wet, and not much good for testing. Aside from the scheduling difficulties, can't the factories just re-schedule their own unofficial test if they want? Now that they are limited by number of tires instead of days, if they don't use any tires here, can't they use them any later time they want? Are they limited to their own test track in any way?

[Gustav O]

Test cancelled at Estoril recently.

[Tourn46]

Fingers crossed they make some improvements with the engine parts... according to Alex Briggs on Twitter they fitted 2 new engines this evening... whole new engines... don't know... but must have some differences, one can assume it is relating to the power delivery.

New engines doesn't actually mean very much, as they would do that even to test the chassis only. It's all about not putting miles on the 6 engines in their season allocation.

Although the test is cancelled... They were going to be testing an engine modification as I pointed out before.

What will you test tomorrow?

"I spoke with Filippo Preziosi, and they have some engine modifications to help smooth the power delivery. I don't think it will solve all of our problems, but it could help."

Are you talking about a completely new engine?

"No, that would take too much time, and I hope we don't need it. I'm not even sure if redesigning the engine is the best idea."


If the test goes well, when can you use the new parts?

"With the limited engine rule, I couldn't have them before Silverstone. But if we get good feedback tomorrow, there will be time to make further adjustments before the British GP."


Does today's result boost your morale?

"From a mental point of view, no, but from a technical point of view it helps."

[Rusty Bucket USA]

So Monday looks to be rainy and wet, and not much good for testing. Aside from the scheduling difficulties, can't the factories just re-schedule their own unofficial test if they want? Now that they are limited by number of tires instead of days, if they don't use any tires here, can't they use them any later time they want? Are they limited to their own test track in any way?

"Aside from scheduling difficulties..." Yes.
Alex Briggs already suggested it would be "between Barcelona and Silverstone".

[dave_m]

Although the test is cancelled... They were going to be testing an engine modification as I pointed out before.

I wasn't disagreeing with that. So both Ducati riders will test at Mugello after Lemans, but the report on GPOne is a little vague as to whether the new engine might be first used at Silverstone or Laguna Seca. Anyone seen anything other reports indicating one way or the other?

[Squidpuppet]

Although the test is cancelled... They were going to be testing an engine modification as I pointed out before.

I wasn't disagreeing with that. So both Ducati riders will test at Mugello after Lemans, but the report on GPOne is a little vague as to whether the new engine might be first used at Silverstone or Laguna Seca. Anyone seen anything other reports indicating one way or the other?

The plan from the horses mouth...

The idea is to seal engine number three in Silverstone and engine number four in Laguna, according to the mileage, so will not have the total package at Mugello. This is unfortunate, because Valentino likes the race a lot and it is our home track."

http://www.motogp.com/en/news/2012/prez ... conference

[ianthem]

Although the test is cancelled... They were going to be testing an engine modification as I pointed out before.

I wasn't disagreeing with that. So both Ducati riders will test at Mugello after Lemans, but the report on GPOne is a little vague as to whether the new engine might be first used at Silverstone or Laguna Seca. Anyone seen anything other reports indicating one way or the other?

They have to finish using the second engine because it's already sealed, before moving onto the new one.

[Hanuman]

They have to finish using the second engine because it's already sealed, before moving onto the new one.

A sealed engine can be removed and replaced as often as the team likes (or dares...). You just can't use more than the allocated 6 per season.

[ianthem]

They have to finish using the second engine because it's already sealed, before moving onto the new one.

A sealed engine can be removed and replaced as often as the team likes (or dares...). You just can't use more than the allocated 6 per season.

Really? As long as it has never been run I suppose?

[Hanuman]

They have to finish using the second engine because it's already sealed, before moving onto the new one.

A sealed engine can be removed and replaced as often as the team likes (or dares...). You just can't use more than the allocated 6 per season.

Really? As long as it has never been run I suppose?

From the Rule Book: A new engine is deemed to be used when the motorcycle with that engine crosses the transponder timing point at the pit lane exit.

[WayneG]

They have to finish using the second engine because it's already sealed, before moving onto the new one.

A sealed engine can be removed and replaced as often as the team likes (or dares...). You just can't use more than the allocated 6 per season.

Really? As long as it has never been run I suppose?

Theoretically a team could have all six engines sealed at the start of the season and rotated throughout the year if they wished. Obviously they don't do this as it doesn't allow for development throughout the year. An engine can be "Rested" and brought back into service at a later date if they are running out of engines as long as the seals haven't been broken. If an engine blows to an extent that it needs to be opened it is "retired" and cannot be reused.

[Cam D]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/others ... eason.html

The Daily Telegraph understands that Rossi has now told his inner circle — his father, Graziano and his manager, Davide Brivio — that he will not race beyond this year.

[Tourn46]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/motorcycling/9250594/Ducati-rider-Valentino-Rossi-expected-to-retire-from-MotoGP-at-the-end-of-this-season.html

The Daily Telegraph understands that Rossi has now told his inner circle — his father, Graziano and his manager, Davide Brivio — that he will not race beyond this year.

They'll be nobody left on the grid... Rossi retiring this year, Stoner retiring this year...

[Rossifumi]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/motorcycling/9250594/Ducati-rider-Valentino-Rossi-expected-to-retire-from-MotoGP-at-the-end-of-this-season.html

The Daily Telegraph understands that Rossi has now told his inner circle — his father, Graziano and his manager, Davide Brivio — that he will not race beyond this year.

Well it wouldn't really be surprising if true. Sad that it's coming to an end but he'll leave me with some great memories of some epic performances. I wonder if he'll make a come-back in superbikes at some point in the future? There's some guys much older than him doing pretty well over there....

[Sloth27]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/motorcycling/9250594/Ducati-rider-Valentino-Rossi-expected-to-retire-from-MotoGP-at-the-end-of-this-season.html

The Daily Telegraph understands that Rossi has now told his inner circle — his father, Graziano and his manager, Davide Brivio — that he will not race beyond this year.

Well it wouldn't really be surprising if true. Sad that it's coming to an end but he'll leave me with some great memories of some epic performances. I wonder if he'll make a come-back in superbikes at some point in the future? There's some guys much older than him doing pretty well over there....

Honestly, I hope Rossi never lowers himself to racing in WSBK. That series is reserved for gran prix 'never has beens'. It's exciting racing, but below a 7 times world champ...

[Rossifumi]

Honestly, I hope Rossi never lowers himself to racing in WSBK. That series is reserved for gran prix 'never has beens'. It's exciting racing, but below a 7 times world champ...

a few years in Rallying or Sports cars and then a final swansong in superbikes? you don't think it could be similar to Hailwood returning to the IoM?

[Sloth27]

Honestly, I hope Rossi never lowers himself to racing in WSBK. That series is reserved for gran prix 'never has beens'. It's exciting racing, but below a 7 times world champ...

a few years in Rallying or Sports cars and then a final swansong in superbikes? you don't think it could be similar to Hailwood returning to the IoM?

I'd like to see him rallying or racing Le Mans, but leaving MotoGP on a low to go to WSBK wouldn't interest me much. What would it prove? That he can still beat Checa and Biaggi after all these years

[ducati1098s]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/othersports/motorcycling/9250594/Ducati-rider-Valentino-Rossi-expected-to-retire-from-MotoGP-at-the-end-of-this-season.html

The Daily Telegraph understands that Rossi has now told his inner circle — his father, Graziano and his manager, Davide Brivio — that he will not race beyond this year.

Thanks Cam- dont really know what to make of that. The "Daily Telegraph/Torygraph" is not exactly well known for its passion for MotoGP and the journo responsible Tom Carry is not a name Ive ever heard before.

Putting aside the question re whether if a now fit Rossi was still on a Yamaha whether he would still be dicing with Stoner and Lorenzo, I think its an interesting question how much of his inner belief and self confidence the Ducati has sapped, such that he will now never be as fast again as he otherwise might have been if he had stayed with Yamaha these last 2 years. Snooker legend (7 x WC in effect) Stephen Hendry retired this week and he gave a very interesting interview in which he said that so much of his winning was down to his own innate belief and self confidence and that once that was eroded by increasingly long winless streaks, his abilities waned at a much greater rate.

If Rossi does retire this season then it will be a sad end to an illustrious career and will ensure that until the Ducati becomes a genuinely neutral (ie not idiosynchratic) race winning bike, no top rider will touch it with a barge pole

[Cam D]

That series is reserved for gran prix 'never has beens'. It's exciting racing, but below a 7 times world champ...

Bit harsh.......

[Cappra]

If Rossi does retire this season then it will be a sad end to an illustrious career and will ensure that until the Ducati becomes a genuinely neutral (ie not idiosynchratic) race winning bike, no top rider will touch it with a barge pole

When Rossi retires leaving a shattered Ducati team and reputation behind, Ducati, Marlboro, Dorna, the Italian Govt and every track owner in the world will chip in to pay Casey $30mil p.a. to ride the Duke . (Spread the rumour ).

[ducati1098s]

Alex Briggs response re rumours

http://mobile.twitter.com/alex__briggs

[Faster1]

That series is reserved for gran prix 'never has beens'. It's exciting racing, but below a 7 times world champ...

Bit harsh.......

+1 harsh alright. WSBK offers a more level playing field of machines, where rider ability is rewarded,, and unlike gp, that reward and podium goal is possible for at least half the grid, not the lucky 4 who have the only bikes capable of a dry race podium. It would be amazing for VR to (try) to get another feather for his cap and go for a WSBK title. Hell,, before he's too old, get a BSB and AMA title as well. Rarefied air indeed.

[dash]

get a BSB and AMA title as well.

Bearing in mind Rossi has been a fairly consistent rider-advocate/complainer about safety/run-off of various circuits (Laguna springs to mind), I think we're unlikely to see him dicing it around Cadwell or Mallory