Ducati goings on. Part 2.

[dave_m]

GPOne has some info about the last Ducati test. (It's still in Italian, so I'm working off the Google Chrome translation.) The engine was rejected by one or both riders, and it appears they will continue with the current engine spec until Laguna Seca. They are divided on the new aluminum swingarm, with Rossi using it this weekend in Catalunya, but not Hayden as it was causing him too much chatter. They have some updates to the electronics that at least Rossi will be using in the race, and it sounds like that will be the emphasis for their testing after the race as well.

[Zaphod]

Hmmmmmm......okay, I don't write on twitter, or use it to follow people inane part of their lives, but at times like these you sometimes can use it to help correlate information.

From Alex Briggs.....

Talking about when bike prep would be completed.....

Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
Off 2 lunch. U know how I said we should b done by lunch? Well that was a dream I'm afraid. Few curve balls but no drama. Reckon by 3pm now


Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
I feel like maxwell smart! Ok would you belive 7pm? (So my lunch time prediction for finishing blew out a bit) Done now. Hospitality calling


And regarding the swing arm.........

Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
You may have noticed if you looked closely at the last pic, the swing arm is Aluminium. Its 1 of the things we tested in mugello-




Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
-We liked it there so we will try it here. Things like that u need to try at several tracks. So instead of Monday test its friday FP1 test!



Interesting.

[Cam D]

Interesting that he mentions Barbera - from Autosport

"There are no improvements, I knew it before testing it," Rossi told Gazzetta dello Sport. "We need something more radical and they're working on it.
"Our programme schedules to have it for Laguna Seca, but this means that we'll first do more testing at Mugello, because we can't think of taking it to the races without knowing how it goes."
Despite the setback, Rossi said his goals at Barcelona - to close the gap to the Tech 3 Yamahas – had not changed.
"Now we'll have to see what happens here," he explained, "if we manage to close the gap to the ones ahead of us in the dry, like the black Yamahas and Barbera. Not so much in practice, but on Sunday afternoon."

[dave_m]

Interesting that he mentions Barbera - from Autosport

"There are no improvements, I knew it before testing it," Rossi told Gazzetta dello Sport. "We need something more radical and they're working on it.
"Our programme schedules to have it for Laguna Seca, but this means that we'll first do more testing at Mugello, because we can't think of taking it to the races without knowing how it goes."
Despite the setback, Rossi said his goals at Barcelona - to close the gap to the Tech 3 Yamahas – had not changed.
"Now we'll have to see what happens here," he explained, "if we manage to close the gap to the ones ahead of us in the dry, like the black Yamahas and Barbera. Not so much in practice, but on Sunday afternoon."

I'm pretty sure he meant Bautista, as Barbera isn't in the group ahead of Rossi that he's trying to close down the gap to.

[Zaphod]

About the only non-judgemental, real world/time, honest (as it can be) descriptions of what's actualy happening.......


Briggs from Qual.

Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
All done and back in the hotel. Hot day out there today. Did Ok, but still missing something. JB has some ideas 4 W/Up.



Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
On paper our race is around 5th place. But as you know we don't race on paper so anything can happen.


Alex Briggs ‏@Alex__Briggs
RT @FatmikeT: Alex is the rider back on carbon swing arm?// Yes, but only because we wanted 2 remove some variable, testing at races is hard

[Japhrodisiac]

A lot of news out of Ducati re: electronics changes, swingarm, new engine bits, new engine coming etc. No news regarding the front end of the bike at all - which has suddenly and miraculously been cured - or all in question have been gag ordered on this subject. Methinks a week in week out rehashing of how badly the bike handles in full press view is wearing on the new Audi management

[dave_m]

A lot of news out of Ducati re: electronics changes, swingarm, new engine bits, new engine coming etc. No news regarding the front end of the bike at all - which has suddenly and miraculously been cured - or all in question have been gag ordered on this subject. Methinks a week in week out rehashing of how badly the bike handles in full press view is wearing on the new Audi management

I think the front end is no longer the weakest link every race, but Rossi was critical of it after free practice and the race. After practice he mentioned they were having difficulty getting traction to the rear without killing the feeling at the front, and after the race he mentioned the understeer and lack of front end feel contributed to wearing out the rear tire faster than he wanted. He's no longer saying the bike is unrideable, but these statements combined with a target finishing position of 7th are still a pretty blunt assessment of the package.

[Tourn46]

Don't think I have seen much about the front end on the 2012 bike at all. I think a testament to this is that neither Rossi or Hayden have fallen off in any session this year.

[Zaphod]

I'll be even simpler about it.

It looks more ridable, and less of a handful to anyone who's name isn't Stoner.

Baby steps. Lots of work to do.At least the placings (this race) have slightly improved in the dry.

What was the gap to Lorenzo from Rossi ? Haven't seen, but I'm guessing 6 to 10 seconds. Much better than 30-odd.

Keep going Nicky and Vale.

[Oscar]

What was the gap to Lorenzo from Rossi ? Haven't seen, but I'm guessing 6 to 10 seconds. Much better than 30-odd.

17.555. Which is considerably better than it has been.

[dave_m]

What was the gap to Lorenzo from Rossi ? Haven't seen, but I'm guessing 6 to 10 seconds. Much better than 30-odd.

17.555. Which is considerably better than it has been.

The gap was lower, but looking at the top times from the race, Ducati were 9,10,11,12 and the times from test put them in 10,11,12 again. So even at their best track so far, they are basically only ahead of CRT teams. As an aside, is there any point in even paying attention to Barbera's lap times anymore, or is it safe to assume he got a tow and still is good for 10th in the race?

[Squidpuppet]

Don't think I have seen much about the front end on the 2012 bike at all. I think a testament to this is that neither Rossi or Hayden have fallen off in any session this year.

It has been a constant source of comment from Rossi.

[dave_m]

GPOne has a report from Rossi, where mentions they did not find a better setup than the one he raced with, and he does like the new construction front tire. They'll test at Aragon on Wednesday and then evaluate things again after Silverstone.

The front is still a problem, as Ducati does not have as much grip as Honda/Yamaha.

[TwoStroke Institute]

Looks like only the Yamaha likes the new tyres, Honda riders didn't like the feedback under brakes

[Gustav O]

Looks like only the Yamaha likes the new tyres, Honda riders didn't like the feedback under brakes

According to Mathew Birt Rossi liked the new front tire as well.

[ducati1098s]

IMHO Ducati are running out of time to give VR sufficient reasons to stay next year, especially with the RCV looking like it needs an experienced development rider if it is going to beat the Yamaha next season. Im sure Rossi wants to make the Italian marriage work but I suspect he wants to return to winning ways more and unless Ducati can find 7/10ths very soon with their new engine due to be rolled out for LS, I think it will be bye bye

[Zaphod]

As an aside, is there any point in even paying attention to Barbera's lap times anymore, or is it safe to assume he got a tow and still is good for 10th in the race?

I can only speak for myself.....I used to back him in 250's against Lorenzo (because Lorenzo's cockiness and dominance used to sh!t me), but to be honest, he wasn't a consistant threat back then. Bit of a loose cannon, who if he was close to Lorenzo would ride like he does when he's near Rossi.

As Barry Sheene used to say of Japanese wildcards at Suzuka.........hand grenade. Pull the pin and wait to see if/when he would go off. I'd say Catalunya is about a standard race position for him and that bike.......if Rossi or Hayden were two places in front, and in sight, he'd have probably gone nuts to beat them.

His lap times on that bike are of no interest to me.Stoner muscling it into positions it shouldn't have been in was.

Plenty have have placed about the same as Hectic on it, looking just as loose. I find it more interesting to watch Hayden and Rossi slo-o-wly turning it into a decent bike. They are running a program, Barbera is running an agenda.

[Japhrodisiac]

Latest Ducati stuff - new steering head angle and triple clamp offset combination resulting in a better overall package according to Hayden, Rossi perhaps too but identical front end crashes from them both today in QP at Silverstone. One step forward or...?

[dave_m]

Latest Ducati stuff - new steering head angle and triple clamp offset combination resulting in a better overall package according to Hayden, Rossi perhaps too but identical front end crashes from them both today in QP at Silverstone. One step forward or...?

I'm not reading too much into the qualifying positions, but Nicky likes Silverstone and finished 4th the previous two races there, so if the Ducati is going to competitive anywhere this year, then Silverstone should be one of those tracks.

Rossi almost lost the front in FP3 as well but saved it and ran off track, I think at the same corner and similar to the qualifying crashes. Nicky mentioned the Ducati is good at braking upright, but not leaned over. This would actually go a little way to explaining the wet/dry performance difference for Ducati, as in the wet they do much more braking straight up and down rather than leaned over.

[Zaphod]

Interesting in regards to the braking when leaned over.

As I posted in the Silverstone topic, both Duc's were slightly leaned to the left, rear came up on a bump and then swung in towards the corner slightly. As soon as the rear started to swing in, the front folded.

Also no change in gap between front guard and fairing, indicating weight transfer did not travel down the forks in reaction to the rear lifting. It seemed to push straight through them.Whether the forks were fully compressed (you'd think not !), or whether the maintained fairing/mudgaurd gap is down to Frame/Engine/Geometry I have no idea.

That's what I thought I saw from the two Slo'Mo' replays of each bike.

[Emoo]

The track characteristics at Vale in the braking zone gives a little rise after braking downhill, I'm no expert but it looked more of a weight transfer issue at that point, both of them where upright when braking. Hayden said he couldn't explain in because he tried the brake, felt ok, braked a little harder and down he went.

[Zaphod]

I've tried to hope.

I have now come to the conclusion that Rossi will be somewhere else for next season, and that Ducati is the new Cagiva.

With the exception that the Cagiva had potential.

[Hanuman]

and that Ducati is the new Cagiva.

With the exception that the Cagiva had potential.

And was rather pretty.

[Zaphod]

In this footage, Barry Sheene inadvertantley points out where Italians go wrong when designing and building their bikes.

http://youtu.be/7lI5HLU-00s

[cmb]

Lol that video should be about Ducati