CRT - The new prototypes

[dave_m]

Does WSBK have an engine limit for the season?

No, and that is the big difference. In CRT they are limited to 12 engines but in WSBK they can change engine as many times as they like - talk sabout Biaggi using more than 40 engines last year.

Thanks Gustav. That was my suspicion and why I asked. So we'll never see fast CRTs unless they spend a jillion dollars just like the factories.

I believe Ezpeleta has said he'll change the rules as necessary to make sure the CRT bikes can be competitive with the satellite bikes. I think they'll be able to beat the satellite Ducati bikes this year, and the factory Ducati bikes next season, as they'll be competitive with both of those before the Yamaha or Honda satellite bikes.

[Gar]

Then he had better start changing a LOT of rules!

[CLX]

If you asked me, I'd say the easiest way to get CRTs to go faster is by giving them better tyres.
Get them to have special Q tyres and then something which is always a step ahead of the rest.

[Squidpuppet]

If you asked me, I'd say the easiest way to get CRTs to go faster is by giving them better tyres.
Get them to have special Q tyres and then something which is always a step ahead of the rest.

I would strongly dislike that approach.

[CLX]

Me too. Very.
But it would work better than giving them more fuel, IMHO.

[Desmo44]

Just allow the CRT's to be 1200's . Once they're competitive, then make another rule change.

[cmb]

CRT will soon be kicking Ducati's butt so they better change the rules for Ducati.

[ieism]

The only way to make the CRT's ( I still can't believe than name stuck... ) faster, is to make the prototypes slower. Rev limit.

I'll go hide under the table now

[Squidpuppet]

Just allow the CRT's to be 1200's . Once they're competitive, then make another rule change.

I LOLd. Seriously.

[dave_m]

Just allow the CRT's to be 1200's . Once they're competitive, then make another rule change.

I LOLd. Seriously.

It works for Ducati in WSBK.

[Desmo44]

It works for Ducati in WSBK.

Indeed, it worked for Honda too, but that was to "equate" twins with multi's. Hey there's an idea: CRT Ducati 1199 Superquadro twin vs the multi CRT 1000's.

[Grahluk]

Watching the Silverstone Moto2 race last weekend made me a little depressed thinking of what's likely to happen to those lead riders that go up to MotoGP. Marc is of course the odds favorite but the likes of Espargaro, Iannone and Luthi can soundly beat him and/or outclass him on any given weekend if not every. This may be their last opportunities to do so as MM gets a full fat factory Honda while their prospects will probably consist of CRTs & maybe a Ducati. These riders who would be Marc's future rivals will likely ride out their careers as mid pack hacks because there are only 4 podium worthy bikes, a few top ten satellites, and a pack of purgatory bikes. Something's got to give. Either slow down the factory bikes' development or give the pseudo prototypes a real measurable advantage like unlimited engines.

[dave_m]

Watching the Silverstone Moto2 race last weekend made me a little depressed thinking of what's likely to happen to those lead riders that go up to MotoGP. Marc is of course the odds favorite but the likes of Espargaro, Iannone and Luthi can soundly beat him and/or outclass him on any given weekend if not every. This may be their last opportunities to do so as MM gets a full fat factory Honda while their prospects will probably consist of CRTs & maybe a Ducati. These riders who would be Marc's future rivals will likely ride out their careers as mid pack hacks because there are only 4 podium worthy bikes, a few top ten satellites, and a pack of purgatory bikes. Something's got to give. Either slow down the factory bikes' development or give the pseudo prototypes a real measurable advantage like unlimited engines.

Of that group, Espargaro is the one I most want to see on a competitive bike in MotoGP. I agree a the 4 podium bike situation isn't a good long term solution at all, but I don't know exactly the solution. I'd like it to be CRT entries competing for the podium, but I'm not sure when/if that can happen.

[RatsMC]

Of that group, Espargaro is the one I most want to see on a competitive bike in MotoGP. I agree a the 4 podium bike situation isn't a good long term solution at all, but I don't know exactly the solution. I'd like it to be CRT entries competing for the podium, but I'm not sure when/if that can happen.

Right. The best way to deal with this is to have CRTs that are competitive enough to give a sense of the potential of the rider - sort of like satellite bikes IF the CRTs can't reach the point where the talent of the rider can be visible, they will fail. This is a worse outcome than simply losing bikes and teams from the grid as it means there isn't a place for the young but overlooked talent in Moto2 - like Stoner.

[Grahluk]

Exactly. Stoner in his underclass days was an Espargaro or Iannone. Undeniable talent, flashes of brilliance, & a best showing of runner up against the Repsol chosen one. His LCR Honda wasn't going to give him a championship shot but it had enough potential for a fair look at his abilities compared to similar factory machinery. Current CRT situation might have flushed him out the back door of GP's. That's why I'd rather a full grid of CRT or Moto1 bikes than letting the two japanese factory teams own the series. Sod the factories. If their rationales for participation is electronics & engine management as they say then let them be suppliers of engines & software to grid of private prototype bikes. Lease the engines & data engineers so they can keep their holiest R&D secrets but any team could acquire top level engineering like they can with suspension & braking systems. Imagine Kalex Yamahas, TSR Hondas, Suter Ducatis. Yeah, I know we already have a Suter Ducati but you know what I mean.

[Squidpuppet]

Watching the Silverstone Moto2 race last weekend made me a little depressed thinking of what's likely to happen to those lead riders that go up to MotoGP. Marc is of course the odds favorite but the likes of Espargaro, Iannone and Luthi can soundly beat him and/or outclass him on any given weekend if not every. This may be their last opportunities to do so as MM gets a full fat factory Honda while their prospects will probably consist of CRTs & maybe a Ducati. These riders who would be Marc's future rivals will likely ride out their careers as mid pack hacks because there are only 4 podium worthy bikes, a few top ten satellites, and a pack of purgatory bikes. Something's got to give. Either slow down the factory bikes' development or give the pseudo prototypes a real measurable advantage like unlimited engines.

This made me wonder about something. Where will Repsols sponsorship dollars be put in Moto2 after MM graduates?

[cmb]

Wow some good post on the future of talent. I think motogp is doomed. They all need to be CRT or they all need to be prototype. No mix and match. I feel bad for the riders that are just as good as MM but don't have a Honda golden spoon. Superbikes at least seem like a fair series.

[RatsMC]

Wow some good post on the future of talent. I think motogp is doomed. They all need to be CRT or they all need to be prototype. No mix and match. I feel bad for the riders that are just as good as MM but don't have a Honda golden spoon. Superbikes at least seem like a fair series.

Dorna will get its rev limits and then there will be greater parity between the factories and the CRTs.

[Cam D]

The rev limit will only be for factory bikes.

[dave_m]

The Indianapolis round is getting another wild-card CRT entry. I think this is the second one announced for Indy, does anyone know if there are other planned?

[ieism]

The rev limit will only be for factory bikes.

What we need right now are more rulechanges

1. Rev limit starts at 14500 rpm. But every million you spend over $20 million per year as a team, will lower your rev limit by 500rpm.

2. To increase the revlimit, factories can opt to lease as many customer bikes to other teams as they want. Each bike leased will allow you to rev 500rpm higher.

[TwoStroke Institute]

http://motomatters.com/news/2012/06/20/ ... _vers.html

About time , won't be cheap to maintain, you will have to be in HRC's good books to get one, but at least there is a bike to buy and race.

[uppili]

Hello Folks!

Posting for the first time here! Have been following the forum keenly for a while though.

With regards to the interview by Nakamoto san being discussed here, one thing really caught my attention and i quote it.

"I think true performance of CRT is higher than what we see now. We would like to prove that......If Honda makes a CRT bike, it will surely be one second faster than a Moto2"

Read more: http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/20120 ... leave.html

Reading between the lines, doesn't it sound like Honda are interested/working on selling a well developed CRT package similar to the ART's next season? It would be interesting to see if they can make a CRT based on their fireblade which is within 1 second of their Honda Proto. That might bring more credibility to the CRT concept and also will be a hell of a lot cheaper than leasing prototypes for the satellite teams. Might even make for a stronger grid of bikes.

Any thoughts?

And here it is!
http://m.motomatters.com/news/2012/06/2 ... _vers.html

If Yamaha and Aprilia (by improving the engine in their current CRT) follow the lead of Honda, this will be a game changer for motogp!

[uppili]

http://motomatters.com/news/2012/06/20/honda_building_production_racer_crt_vers.html

About time , won't be cheap to maintain, you will have to be in HRC's good books to get one, but at least there is a bike to buy and race.

Beat me to it!

[tom]

And we are back to square 1! Even before the new CRT class has a chance to settle and encourage new teams to find their feet, the big boys are entering the fray.

Honda can (and will) wipe the floor with their production racer. Imaging a slightly dumbed down RCV, then add 4 more litres of fuel and a larger engine allocation... They will have Ducati for breakfast never mind the poor CRT teams.

Im going to sound like a broken record but the only way to prevent the CRT's becoming the Darwinian 2 horse race between Honda and Yamaha, that MotoGP is at the moment, is to force Honda (and anyone else) to supply their bike and equal support to whomever wants it and at a reasonable price.

Without that crucial rule it will be a progressively more expensive arms race between the big guys, with their chosen teams dominating while the others drop out until there's no one else left and the bikes are so expensive not even the dominating teams are sustainable.

There is nothing stoping Honda from providing an exact copy of their current RCV to an independent team to race in the CRT class! And that is where is will rapidly head if Yamaha joins the production racer bandwagon. A Bike arms race only 2 can survive in.