rookie rule

[JanBros]

as pointed out on the main side, there is a big problem with the rookie rule for next year involving Marquez. And that problem might even extend to the years after.

I was wondering how people here would solve this dilema.

My propositions is :

- Keep the rookie rule
- ditch the "only 2 + 2 proto's for factories" (factories only allowed 2 factory bikes and 2 satelites)
- instead of setting in place a maximum leaseprice for a satelite bike, implement a maximum lease revenue from satelite bikes. I mean : in stead of 2 milj dollars for 1 satelite bike, allow factories an income of 4 milj dollars total out of saelites. Honda could then decide for next year to lease 3 bikes at 1.333 milj dollars per bike and create the nescesary "extra bike for 1 year" to give Marc his rookie season. Another benefit would be that the other 2 satelite teams have some more financiel brathing space.

I see only one problem : the extra cost of one more bike falls entirely on Honda, but I don't thinck anyone will object to that

[dave_m]

I think the rookie rule was a good idea and worked when there were more prototype bikes on the grid, but causes problems now that the grid-filler bikes are CRT rather than last years factory models. I don't like the idea of eliminating it for a specific rider (Marquez), but it's just causing problems while the CRT bikes aren't competitive. The factories only running 4 bikes is problem because the CRT bikes are still so far off the pace of the satellite bikes.

If I was making the rules for MotoGP, I'd keep the rookie rule, allow Honda to run an 5th bike for Marquez (not on the factory Repsol team) and worry more about how to make the CRT bikes competitive with the satellite bikes.

[edited for clarity]

[Gar]

I've heard one rumor that Abraham's father isn't going to pony up for another year at Ducati, and if so it's possible that Honda may be able to take the extra slot.

[Squidpuppet]

There is a team with the funding to step up to MtoGP, yet there is a "Rule" that prevents it. [facepalm] Um....wasnt the grid size a big concern the last few seasons? Werent some other "Rules" actually created to solve this? Lame!

Allow the factories to supply as many bikes as there are qualified customers.

[Squidpuppet]

I've heard one rumor that Abraham's father isn't going to pony up for another year at Ducati, and if so it's possible that Honda may be able to take the extra slot.

Confused here Gar. What "slot"?

[JanBros]

If I was making the rules for MotoGP, I'd keep the rookie rule, allow HRC to run an extra bike for Marquez and worry more about how to make the CRT bikes competitive with the satellite bikes.

You can not keep the rule and at the same time allow exceptions. If it were Yamaha next time, you can not possible tell time "no"

I believe Honda's biggest problem is that their 2 sat's are spread over 2 teams .
Yamaha for years has one spot to their choice - if needed - to drop a "prefered rider" in MotoGP.

[dave_m]

If I was making the rules for MotoGP, I'd keep the rookie rule, allow HRC to run an extra bike for Marquez and worry more about how to make the CRT bikes competitive with the satellite bikes.

You can not keep the rule and at the same time allow exceptions. If it were Yamaha next time, you can not possible tell time "no"

I believe Honda's biggest problem is that their 2 sat's are spread over 2 teams .
Yamaha for years has one spot to their choice - if needed - to drop a "prefered rider" in MotoGP.

I wasn't clear enough, by "extra bike" I meant on a new/different team than Repsol, where the rookie rule currently prevents Marquez from joining.

[Gar]

I've heard one rumor that Abraham's father isn't going to pony up for another year at Ducati, and if so it's possible that Honda may be able to take the extra slot.

Confused here Gar. What "slot"?

There are, in theory, 4 prototype bikes allowed to each factory, 12 total. If Abraham is out and there is no one to take the spot (slot), it could be a face saving measure to allow a 5th Honda. Just a thought, and it was rumor that I heard - but it sounds as feasible as anything else that I have heard.

[Squidpuppet]

There are, in theory, 4 prototype bikes allowed to each factory, 12 total. If Abraham is out and there is no one to take the spot (slot), it could be a face saving measure to allow a 5th Honda. Just a thought, and it was rumor that I heard - but it sounds as feasible as anything else that I have heard.

Ok.

[cmb]

if ducati says yes to this they should tell honda to vote yes to get rid of engine limits. rossi has to wait till laguna seca to see if the ducati is still a POS. i really hope he either rides a honda next year or retires. i cant stand watching the champ just beating the crt bikes in warmups and qual.

[Gar]

I don't think the engine limitations are going anywhere.

[Zaphod]

No......but the rookie rule has.

I thought Ezpaleta said "No, we will not be changing the rookie rule"........man of his word, I see.

[TheFamousEccles]

I saw Ezpaleta being interviewed before the race broadcast (with Steve Parish), and when asked about Stoner's retirement he was clear and spoke fine english and made a point - backhanded as it was, but a point none-the-less. When asked about the rookie rule he was imediatley on the back foot, eyes darting too and fro, and drifted into a very difficult dialect of spanglish. He said a lot, but not much of any import.

The bottom line? Honda gets what Honda wants.

We could argue the merits or otherwise of the rookie rule, but there was no mention of getting rid of it until Marquez needed a seat. And I also recall a certain Japanese team principle stating categorically that they would not be fielding two spaniards in the same team....

Over the years I have seen the various powers that be capitulate to the various Honda demands, and have reconcilled that to myself as "oh well, at least they are still in the game", but now I am just bored with it and it is affecting how I view Grand Prix Motorcycle racing in much the same way.

I really hope that I am shown to be a pessimist, but I don't think I will be.

[tom]

Suzuki got rule changes to... Smart move changing the rookie rule, dumb move completely ruling out changing it in the first place.

[Cam D]

I saw Ezpaleta being interviewed before the race broadcast (with Steve Parish), and when asked about Stoner's retirement he was clear and spoke fine english and made a point - backhanded as it was, but a point none-the-less. When asked about the rookie rule he was imediatley on the back foot, eyes darting too and fro, and drifted into a very difficult dialect of spanglish. He said a lot, but not much of any import.

The bottom line? Honda gets what Honda wants.

We could argue the merits or otherwise of the rookie rule, but there was no mention of getting rid of it until Marquez needed a seat. And I also recall a certain Japanese team principle stating categorically that they would not be fielding two spaniards in the same team....

Over the years I have seen the various powers that be capitulate to the various Honda demands, and have reconcilled that to myself as "oh well, at least they are still in the game", but now I am just bored with it and it is affecting how I view Grand Prix Motorcycle racing in much the same way.

I really hope that I am shown to be a pessimist, but I don't think I will be.

Honda didn't get a good front tyre. Honda were give four extra kilo's and told to accept it. I don't see Honda running the show, and don't think they have for a little while now. What I've seen is some really clever marketing with every web site and magazine, bar none, telling me how we would be better off without the rookie rule. Surprise surprise the rule just changed... wait what's that over there.... oh never mind I was mistaken. What I've seen is a Spanish guy working for a Spanish company, organise for a Spanish rider to ride for the big Spanish sponsor.I think Ezpaleta got what Ezpaleta wanted. A new "Rossi" to have as a headline act for the MotoGp Show. MotoGP has been grooming MM for the big show, it's been quite blatent.
I think Dollars talk the loudest. Mind you.... I don't think we'll hear Honda complaining too loudly about this one

[Zaphod]

Maybe it's just me, but (dodgey riding aside) I don't see MM having the same level of skill when it comes to close quarters racing as his rivals.

[Sloth27]

The Satellite teams didn't even want the rookie rule for next year so there was no reason to keep it. LCR and Gresini don't want Marquez because it'll screw sponsorship deals that are hard to come by plus they want to keep their riders.

Sounds like everyone is happy with getting rid of one of the dumbest rules ever. Can't think of another sport that would ban it's top athletes from the top teams?

[Kropotkin]

Can't think of another sport that would ban it's top athletes from the top teams?

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2012

[Pantah]

Maybe it's just me, but (dodgey riding aside) I don't see MM having the same level of skill when it comes to close quarters racing as his rivals.

I dunno ... The kid seems to have done well to date.... But I reckon a lot of people who consider themselves Moto GP fans are not taking into account .....HISTORY....
Over the last 4 or 5 years how many riders have we seen fail, who were expected to be the next Hailwood, Ago , Roberts , Doohan ( insert favourite champ....)
I'm not going to mention names, but we do have one still running around this year.....
Marc Marquez hasn't even ridden in Moto GP , yet he is the next goddamn champion......
Am I alone in thinking its a little premature.... ?

[OZintheDesert]

Maybe it's just me, but (dodgey riding aside) I don't see MM having the same level of skill when it comes to close quarters racing as his rivals.

I dunno ... The kid seems to have done well to date.... But I reckon a lot of people who consider themselves Moto GP fans are not taking into account .....HISTORY....
Over the last 4 or 5 years how many riders have we seen fail, who were expected to be the next Hailwood, Ago , Roberts , Doohan ( insert favourite champ....)
I'm not going to mention names, but we do have one still running around this year.....
Marc Marquez hasn't even ridden in Moto GP , yet he is the next goddamn champion......
Am I alone in thinking its a little premature.... ?

+1

[ieism]

As far as I know he didn't even ride a motogp bike yet, right?

Sounds like one hell of a gamble, but HRC seem pretty confident he's the next golden child of motogp. I've heard that before though.

[dash]

Sounds like one hell of a gamble, but HRC seem pretty confident he's the next golden child of motogp. I've heard that before though.

2013: Lorenzo's season goes off the rails as the new Yamaha turns out to be a chattering pig. Pedrosa finally takes the championship, despite being forced to test new parts for Marquez, and despite Marquez taking him out at the penultimate round. Troy Bayliss comes out of retirement and rides the Ducati to victory at Valencia.

[Squidpuppet]

Sounds like one hell of a gamble, but HRC seem pretty confident he's the next golden child of motogp. I've heard that before though.

2013: Lorenzo's season goes off the rails as the new Yamaha turns out to be a chattering pig. Pedrosa finally takes the championship, despite being forced to test new parts for Marquez, and despite Marquez taking him out at the penultimate round. Troy Bayliss comes out of retirement and rides the Ducati to victory at Valencia.

Deja Vuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[Nachlauf]

Sounds like one hell of a gamble, but HRC seem pretty confident he's the next golden child of motogp. I've heard that before though.

2013: Lorenzo's season goes off the rails as the new Yamaha turns out to be a chattering pig. Pedrosa finally takes the championship, despite being forced to test new parts for Marquez, and despite Marquez taking him out at the penultimate round. Troy Bayliss comes out of retirement and rides the Ducati to victory at Valencia.

But given the frequency of rule changes I wouldn't be surprised if they changed engine size for prototypes back to 800cc after 2013 in an attempt to help the 1000cc CRTs get more competitive. Meanwhile Pol Espagaro rides 2013 in a new satellite team (if you haven't heard yet Pramac is in liquidation so someone else will be receiving their satellite Ducati next year) only to sign a contract with a desperate manufacturer for 2014.

[MiniNinjaMk5]

Maybe it's just me, but (dodgey riding aside) I don't see MM having the same level of skill when it comes to close quarters racing as his rivals.

I dunno ... The kid seems to have done well to date.... But I reckon a lot of people who consider themselves Moto GP fans are not taking into account .....HISTORY....
Over the last 4 or 5 years how many riders have we seen fail, who were expected to be the next Hailwood, Ago , Roberts , Doohan ( insert favourite champ....)
I'm not going to mention names, but we do have one still running around this year.....
Marc Marquez hasn't even ridden in Moto GP , yet he is the next goddamn champion......
Am I alone in thinking its a little premature.... ?

+1

Definitely.. exactly the same thing has been said about other riders before, Pedrosa being the most obvious one. You forget the level of domination he showed in 125s and 250s, absolutely thrashing the rest of the field. I think bar Katoh he had the most wins in a season (even eclipsing Biaggi?)

Marquez is an obvious talent, but I don't think it is helping anyone's case (least of all his) to celebrate his ascension to godhood when he is still scrabbling around in the feeder class.