New site - The secrets behind the RC-V Series

[Cam D]

Just remember that almost all 'officially-sanctioned' photos will either be of obsolete designs, or taken from deceptive angles to hinder scaling off the photos.

But back to the topic, the engine is ostensibly 70+ degrees. So it's no narrrow-V Harley twin...umm bad example for a GP engine

CamD, Re: the 90deg thing: Honda have built a very compact engine, squeezing the V-angle until either intake/injector tracts or airbox volume is compromised. It is very neat, orderly and small. The Ducati looks surprisingly bulky, not just due to its 90degrees, but the height and width of the heads, the size of crankcase, the positioning of the water pumps. The Honda head is pretty narrow, I doubt a Ducati head would fit between the spars of the Honda. And that, to me, is the crux of the weight distribution issues that the Ducati seems to have...Ignore the V angle and just consider it a BIG engine...and bad for packaging. They need to do whatever's required to get it more compact to allow them more freedom of location/weight distribution.

That probably makes more sense to me. I wonder if the width of the heads is due to the desmo config?

[TwoStroke Institute]

http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-engine/

If my eyes aren't deceiving me, that V angle looks really close to 90º. If this is an actual engine from the RCV then all the Ducati 90º angle causing "packaging" issues theories are moot & their problems are more fundamental & illusive.

Oh, & send me a Keith Code anti-fanboy T-shirt too.

Are you a builder by chance? The angle is way less than 90deg, there was no side on shot to prevent espionage. Keith has a large protractor for you

[Hanuman]

That probably makes more sense to me. I wonder if the width of the heads is due to the desmo config?

From what I've seen, I'd guess that the heads would be taller on a the desmo - with more rockers and cams on top of what are pretty vertical valves. The width thing seems to be down to the old design of bolting bits of frame to the heads...it could also be due to wider bore spacing or wider cam drive... Just like the whole bike, the engine doesn't look as well integrated as the Japanese competitors (or is its competition now the CRTs )

[JoeKing]

http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-engine/

If my eyes aren't deceiving me, that V angle looks really close to 90º. If this is an actual engine from the RCV then all the Ducati 90º angle causing "packaging" issues theories are moot & their problems are more fundamental & illusive.

Oh, & send me a Keith Code anti-fanboy T-shirt too.

Are you a builder by chance? The angle is way less than 90deg, there was no side on shot to prevent espionage. Keith has a large protractor for you

Perhaps the years of inhaling Castrol has given you a case of parallax because the Honda is most definitely closer to 90º than 60-70º. Where is the provision for the balance shaft?

For illustrative purposes here is a picture of a 65º Aprilia.....Pretty obvious the Honda isn't even close.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... EwAA&dur=0

And here is a production Desmosedici. While the cylinders are obviously farther apart (than the RCV) the MotoGP variant must surely be more compact & I stand by my (almost or) 90º Honda belief.

http://fullmotorbike.com/ducati-desmose ... -pictures/

Even if the Honda is not 90º the whole packaging arguement is shown to be without merit as the engines are very close in size & configuration. In a bazzar way this vindicates Preziosi's belief that the 90º engine layout isn't the problem..of course that leads him to ...where???

[yzr750]

http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-engine/

If my eyes aren't deceiving me, that V angle looks really close to 90º. If this is an actual engine from the RCV then all the Ducati 90º angle causing "packaging" issues theories are moot & their problems are more fundamental & illusive.

Oh, & send me a Keith Code anti-fanboy T-shirt too.

Are you a builder by chance? The angle is way less than 90deg, there was no side on shot to prevent espionage. Keith has a large protractor for you

Perhaps the years of inhaling Castrol has given you a case of parallax because the Honda is most definitely closer to 90º than 60-70º. Where is the provision for the balance shaft?

For illustrative purposes here is a picture of a 65º Aprilia.....Pretty obvious the Honda isn't even close.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... EwAA&dur=0

And here is a production Desmosedici. While the cylinders are obviously farther apart (than the RCV) the MotoGP variant must surely be more compact & I stand by my (almost or) 90º Honda belief.

http://fullmotorbike.com/ducati-desmose ... -pictures/

Even if the Honda is not 90º the whole pacakaging arguement is shown to be without merit as the engines are very close in size & configuration. In a bazzar way this vindicates Preziosi's belief that the 90º engine layout isn't the problem..of course that leads him to ...where???

Well, according to this, quoted from page 1 of this thread,

"The main thrust of mass centralization has been in engine layouts: Suzuki's GSV-R uses a 65° V4 engine, Honda's RC212V uses a 72° V4, and Yamaha's M1 uses an inline 4 to make the engine even more compact, sacrificing a little bit of width for more centralization of mass. Behind the crankshaft, gearboxes are stacked, the rows of gears transferring power from the crankshaft to the rear wheel folded up into a V to shorten the length of the gearbox and keep the mass even closer to the engine's overall center of mass."

The honda is 72degrees

[JanBros]

The honda is 72degrees

yep. I thought this is common knowlegde.

[JanBros]

look at the front : plenty of room to instaal a startermotor. You could even fit a second spare one

http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-engine/

[TwoStroke Institute]

http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-engine/

If my eyes aren't deceiving me, that V angle looks really close to 90º. If this is an actual engine from the RCV then all the Ducati 90º angle causing "packaging" issues theories are moot & their problems are more fundamental & illusive.

Oh, & send me a Keith Code anti-fanboy T-shirt too.

Are you a builder by chance? The angle is way less than 90deg, there was no side on shot to prevent espionage. Keith has a large protractor for you

Perhaps the years of inhaling Castrol has given you a case of parallax because the Honda is most definitely closer to 90º than 60-70º. Where is the provision for the balance shaft?

For illustrative purposes here is a picture of a 65º Aprilia.....Pretty obvious the Honda isn't even close.

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... EwAA&dur=0

And here is a production Desmosedici. While the cylinders are obviously farther apart (than the RCV) the MotoGP variant must surely be more compact & I stand by my (almost or) 90º Honda belief.

http://fullmotorbike.com/ducati-desmose ... -pictures/

Even if the Honda is not 90º the whole pacakaging arguement is shown to be without merit as the engines are very close in size & configuration. In a bazzar way this vindicates Preziosi's belief that the 90º engine layout isn't the problem..of course that leads him to ...where???

Honda has been 72deg since 990 days as Tom O'Kane said "Well 5 divides evenly into 360 doesn't it" the change to V4 ust have added a balncer and it looks to be in front of the front cylinder bank.

Castor is good for you Elf Moto 124 not so good.

[JoeKing]

"Well 5 divides evenly into 360 doesn't it"


To "protract" this discussion...by his contorted logic then we must now assume the "new" V-angle is..."4 divides evenly into 360 doesn't it?"

No one outside Honda knows whether its 72º or 90º, the bigger issue is that the RCV (as shown in the picture) is NOT a compact unit that easily lends itself any better (than the Desmosedici) to packaging & Honda has dealt with the same issues with satisfactory result.

Like the "Its the Carbon Fiber frame" red-herring, Ducati is still paddling up sht's creek now that we "keyboard engineers" can safely put paid to the engine configuration as the source of their failure.

What next Mr. Preziosi?

[JanBros]

still believe that is close to 90°

[Squidpuppet]

still believe that is close to 90°

Man that M1 is compact.

[Hanuman]

look at the front : plenty of room to instaal a startermotor. You could even fit a second spare one

http://world.honda.com/RC-V/RC212V/report-engine/

OK,I'll concede that. Move the oil/water heat exchanger, stick the starter in its place, modify sump to carry an idler gear to clutch/primary...and turn the thing into an 8 hours F1-spec racer.

[tom]

I dont think anyone is advocating an instantaneous move to electronic starters. But give everyone 2 years notice and they can develop their new bikes around them. It can be a long to medium term thing.

[Hanuman]

I dont think anyone is advocating an instantaneous move to electronic starters. But give everyone 2 years notice and they can develop their new bikes around them. It can be a long to medium term thing.

True, true, but in 10 years of diesel racing, they haven't bothered. Can't see them starting now, unless mandated.

[tom]

still believe that is close to 90°

Pic of a 2011 RCV engine? No wonder the Honda had the better drive last year, they ran an extra cylinder

Perhaps the 2006 engine?

[JanBros]

Pic of a 2011 RCV engine? No wonder the Honda had the better drive last year, they ran an extra cylinder

Perhaps the 2006 engine?

I didn't even see that