JL vs. VR on factory Yam. how do you see it?

[Rusty Bucket USA]

MiniNinjaMk5, I think that is an interesting story. I think it highlights the differences between what it felt like to see the race in person, vs. seeing it in hindsight.

Coyote, I think you are being a little too dismissive of Lorenzo. I don't think there's an aspect to Lorezno's style that could be considered "very conservative". That's not his way. Fast, in a brutally consistent fashion, is his way, and his opponents do not think he is coasting it home.

Indeed, the prospect of Rossi returning to Yamaha would seem to have the narrative that "we are getting the 2010 that should have been", but that's just now how things are. If that's the route Rossi takes, that will certainly be his posture, an good on them both if he does, but it will certainly nag at him that he wasn't able to deliver on the Ducati.

[coyote]

Surely after all the it's the Rider not the bike and how easily the Ducati could be fixed , leaving Ducati now ,
His time there could only be described as a failure.

But since his career before that was already one of, if not the, greatest ever it's not too bad.

Coyote, I think you are being a little too dismissive of Lorenzo. I don't think there's an aspect to Lorezno's style that could be considered "very conservative". That's not his way. Fast, in a brutally consistent fashion, is his way, and his opponents do not think he is coasting it home.

I didn't say his style is conservative, but that in 2010 he could ride very conservatively in a lot of races. There was never too much pressure points-wise put to him, whereas in '09 he was constantly under pressure in the standings, along with being under more pressure in the races.

[Tourn46]

Any time a rider doesn't win it's a failure isn't it?

[_M_]

One angle that VR will consider is that if he indeed does bail out of Ducati he will be seen as a failure

good grief - 9x world champion a failure.....

Or, next time, try it this way;

One angle that VR will consider is that if he indeed does bail out of Ducati he will be seen as a failure, and he may actually hang that badge on himself.

If your response good grief - 9x world champion a failure..... is to the statement above, then the answer would be, yes?

[HAWAIIAN MAN]

First let me say that I would not consider myself to be a Rossi fan, quite the opposite actually...however you've got to give the guy some credit for his attempt at the problem child Ducati,...kinda reminds me of what Steady Eddie did for Cagiva in a scence. I respect everyones opinions although I do find it a little odd how he's pretty much been written off when compaired to Lorenzo on the same bike in 13. Is this because most here are not Rossi fans like myself?

Not to discount anything from what Lorenzo has done by any means, however I think it's important to recall that Rossi & Burgess made the YamahaM1 what it is today and Lorenzo has benefited from that. Who really knows how much information was shared between the two teams but in my mind they are still under one tent and Lorenzo has been given a great bike. With that bike he's really come into his own and even risen above that at some venues running away with the top step! Italy was a good example of that.

If Rossi decides to accept the offer from Yamaha he'll have to have JB and team by his side to even have a chance imo. If they choose that route they are going to have an uphill battle and I think as an underdog, a Rossi fan I will be! The odd part in some of your post insist Rossi has lost his touch... or that he's older now and doesnt have it anymore,...to that I chuckel and hope Im not wrong going on line and restating that the guy is a 9time champ and when not hurt, will always be the rider to beat. It's only been two short years on the Duck don't be fooled into thinking your not going to see the battle royal of your life if this happens! Course it would be a battle royal if he was on a Honda too but that's another rumor to address.

[Kropotkin]

Rossi's offer from Ducati is said to be 17 million euros a year. More than he is earning now.

[dave_m]

Rossi's offer from Ducati is said to be 17 million euros a year. More than he is earning now.

That is a truckload of money to anyone, especially with Yamaha not offering near that amount. Hmmm, take the guaranteed money and gamble on the bike or take the guaranteed bike and less money. (He may not beat Lorenzo on the Yam, but he knows he'll get good results and the bike won't be what holds him back.)

[coyote]

The odd part in some of your post insist Rossi has lost his touch... or that he's older now and doesnt have it anymore,...to that I chuckel and hope Im not wrong going on line and restating that the guy is a 9time champ and when not hurt, will always be the rider to beat. It's only been two short years on the Duck don't be fooled into thinking your not going to see the battle royal of your life if this happens! Course it would be a battle royal if he was on a Honda too but that's another rumor to address.

I'm a Ross fan and I disagree, he's not the guy to beat anymore. Lorenzo is, being (IMO) clearly the best rider out there at this moment. Rossi is still in the top 4 and could challenge for the title again but he's lost it enough to not be at Jorge's level.

[Kropotkin]

I believe the outlines of this story to be substantially true:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120728oo2v.htm

[Geonerd]

17 Million is just sickening. That much $ will buy a hell of a lot of new frames, swingarms, R/D, chassis engineers, etc. If Ducati is serious about improving, they would be much better off rolling most of that back into the bike.

Jorge will smack Rossi.
After about 4 races, VR will start making demands.
Yam will tell him what they told him last time - "Fine, go piss off."
Not even Uncle Ezzy will be able to 'convince' Yam to sign him for a second year.
Disaster x2.

[HAWAIIAN MAN]

The odd part in some of your post insist Rossi has lost his touch... or that he's older now and doesnt have it anymore,...to that I chuckel and hope Im not wrong going on line and restating that the guy is a 9time champ and when not hurt, will always be the rider to beat. It's only been two short years on the Duck don't be fooled into thinking your not going to see the battle royal of your life if this happens! Course it would be a battle royal if he was on a Honda too but that's another rumor to address.

I'm a Ross fan and I disagree, he's not the guy to beat anymore. Lorenzo is, being (IMO) clearly the best rider out there at this moment. Rossi is still in the top 4 and could challenge for the title again but he's lost it enough to not be at Jorge's level.

I agree, in some sence but I also think he'll surprise everyone just a bit. Well see hopefully I'm right and we can witness some phonomenal races. I guess that's the only reason I want everyone here to be somewhat wrong is so we can have the premier class back on top where it should be. I'd like to see races like Montegi in 2010. Who knows maybe Lorenzo will toy with Rossi and hold the carrot and make a show of it.

[frankrizzo]

good post mini, though i think ramon forcada is deserving of a mention in the equation too, to my eyes it seems that he and lorenzo have a great knack between them of getting the optimum from that yamaha and have undoubtedly developed the best bike on the grid. it doesn't look to me like anything is 'broken' at yamaha. In fact yamaha should be thinking it is better to preserve the status quo, among the factory teams, and who really has a chance of toppling lorenzo/yamaha from the top with stoner gone.

i can't see why yamaha would want 'him' on a factory bike except for a huge amount of sponsor cash and i also think ducati/audi will make staying with them too sweet for valentino to leave. but IF he did move to yamaha i think he'd struggle with lorenzo, i'd love to see it but i don't think it'll happen.

[NudeKoala]

Lorenzo should just walk straight up to him in the garage put his arms round Rossi and say

Hi Valentino welcome back, see told you it was the Bike


I think JLo will be happy to have someone for Marquez and Pedrosa to play with, so he can get on with winning

[n8r]

I believe the outlines of this story to be substantially true:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120728oo2v.htm

Oh Italy - where your CEOs wear clothes appropriate for someone 30 years your junior.

I think the huge pile of money coming from the Ducati offer isn't necessarily money that would be going for development. I'd wager most of that money is coming from Marlboro and other sponsors.

[GD66]

17 Million is just sickening. That much $ will buy a hell of a lot of new frames, swingarms, R/D, chassis engineers, etc. If Ducati is serious about improving, they would be much better off rolling most of that back into the bike.

Jorge will smack Rossi.
After about 4 races, VR will start making demands.
Yam will tell him what they told him last time - "Fine, go piss off."
Not even Uncle Ezzy will be able to 'convince' Yam to sign him for a second year.
Disaster x2.

Like your thinking. Sad affair when two factories are courting someone who illustrates weekly he won't go the extra required to chase a couple of tenths, rather than scouting out some exciting new blood for the series. This is what happens when the Dorna lot have made one man bigger than the sport at all costs. When is it enough ?

[dave_m]

I think it'll make for some close racing, and while Lorenzo has to remain the favorite for the title in 2013, I'd be surprised if Rossi wasn't runner-up. Chances of Rossi not being able to get up to speed and win at least 1 race at Yamaha are pretty small, as Rossi lost his pace the instant he switched from Yam to Duc, not gradually over the 2 seasons while riding the Ducati.

EDIT: I wasn't clear. Rossi was immediately slower on the Duc, so he'll be immediately quicker back on the Yamaha. The only question is how much.

[eddahenry]

I think it'll make for some close racing, and while Lorenzo has to remain the favorite for the title in 2013, I'd be surprised if Rossi wasn't runner-up. Chances of Rossi not being able to get up to speed and win at least 1 race at Yamaha are pretty small, as Rossi lost his pace the instant he switched from Yam to Duc, not gradually over the 2 seasons while riding the Ducati.

I dont think rossi has lost the pace
But i do think JLo has improved a massive amount , has Rossi , Ill guess we will find out

[JanBros]

Even if he returns to Yamaha, I don't thinck he'll be able to beat Ago's records (wins and titles),so :

* why return to Yamaha ? just to prove he can still win ? I bet he wanted at least Ago's record of total win's but not enough time to do it , especialy with Jorge on the same bike.
* not allowed to take he's all crew with him. is he's ego so big he would dump them all just to get on the yamaha for a couple of wins, after he pursuaded them to join him at Ducati ?
* staying at Ducati would mean at least another wasted year (Audi needs to asses the problems at Ducati, like why can't they come up with updates in a reasonable time-frame, but that takes time to make the right adjustments).

I would baile out of MotoGP and go for another record : be the first to win a MotoGP and SBK-tittle.
- not on the Ducati : I bet he never want's to ride an "aluminium box like" framed bike ever again
- BMW probably no seats available
- Honda outdated
- no Yamaha's
- Suzuki no factory bikes
- leaves only 2 : Aprilia and Kawasaki. If Biaggi stays on another year, I'm sure he will veto Rossi so that leaves the Kawasaki. It may be the only one left, but I thinck it is the best option from the lot ; they just need that little extra - the same extra BMW needed and found after they hired a former GP-rider. He will enjoy riding/winning again and has a bigger chance of taking another tittle/record.

I thinck KHI (Kawasaki heavy industries, not the motorcycle departement alone) should be able to come up with enough money to get him, especialy as the "return on investment" is very big with Rossi on one of your bikes.

[Desh]

MiniNinjaMk5, I think that is an interesting story. I think it highlights the differences between what it felt like to see the race in person, vs. seeing it in hindsight.

Coyote, I think you are being a little too dismissive of Lorenzo. I don't think there's an aspect to Lorezno's style that could be considered "very conservative". That's not his way. Fast, in a brutally consistent fashion, is his way, and his opponents do not think he is coasting it home.

I think one aspect Lorenzo could be described as conservative, or outrageous depending on how you look at it, is his use of TC. During the Laguna race they showed his throttle trace compared to Stoners.. there were corners where Lorenzo was holding it wide open extremely early where Stoner never even got to full throttle. Lorenzo clearly uses a LOT of TC, compared to Stoner anyway. I think Rossi could take it to Lorenzo at Yamaha.

[ieism]

I have no doubt Rossi can compete with Lorenzo for the title on equal terms. But I doubt he will want to go at it without his trusted team, it's not really fair in my opinion either. It's not like Ben's team has been doing such a good job this year, so If I were Rossi I would not even take the offer serious.

Sounds like some kind of sick joke by Lin Jarvis to me. "Yes, you're more than welcome as our second rider if you bring lots of sponsor money. But we're going to give you the mechanics that can't remember to check the bike over properly before a race ok? To save costs, hahaha... "

[sailor22]

I believe the outlines of this story to be substantially true:

http://www.superbikeplanet.com/2012/Jul/120728oo2v.htm

and that would be Carlo Pernat in the background - some of his comments here

http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/20120 ... -naso.html

[sailor22]

I should mention Google translate seems particularly at sea with this one.

[Tourn46]

I think one aspect Lorenzo could be described as conservative, or outrageous depending on how you look at it, is his use of TC. During the Laguna race they showed his throttle trace compared to Stoners.. there were corners where Lorenzo was holding it wide open extremely early where Stoner never even got to full throttle. Lorenzo clearly uses a LOT of TC, compared to Stoner anyway. I think Rossi could take it to Lorenzo at Yamaha.

Why does the amount of TC matter?

The guy is over 20 points clear of the others having suffered a DNF through no fault of his own... perhaps the others should make better use of the TC systems if that's a deciding factor by any shape or form.

[Gar]

TC slows riders down. The more TC you use, the slower you go.

[wardy140]

I think it's a bit of a Myth that Burgess and Rossi made the Yamaha a winner.
Yamaha put a huge effort into building the M1 after how many years 6or 7 of Honda domination, they then went and got the best rider, Rossi, to ride it for them. Lucky it was good straight from the start or Rossi might have "developed" it like the Ducati. There is a bike he made what it is today. He turned a race winner into a pig.