Marquez

[allostef]

I just remembered an interview David had with Mike Webb (who is a superb guy, along with his successor Danny Aldridge)
http://motomatters.com/interview/2012/0 ... nyone.html

Cheating in Moto2 is not so obvious.

[HAWAIIAN MAN]

http://www.classic-motorbikes.com/stock ... 80&Lang=en

[CLX]

The sideways braking is his style or a Moto2 thing?
It seems they all want a piece of him on the track, even if it means letting the win slip away, like Ianonne today.

[Tourn46]

The sideways braking is his style or a Moto2 thing?
It seems they all want a piece of him on the track, even if it means letting the win slip away, like Ianonne today.

It's the only way they can stop him winning. He still comes out on top more often than not regardless of having everyone on the track gunning for him...

The sideways braking... isn't that more to do with the bikes? A lot of the guys in Moto2 do it.

[Japhrodisiac]

The sideways braking is his style or a Moto2 thing?
It seems they all want a piece of him on the track, even if it means letting the win slip away, like Ianonne today.

It's the only way they can stop him winning. He still comes out on top more often than not regardless of having everyone on the track gunning for him...

The sideways braking... isn't that more to do with the bikes? A lot of the guys in Moto2 do it.

Sideways braking largely due to the Suter clutch, all Moto2 bikes running it as a slipper clutch, and it is pretty unsophisticated equipment at that. They're braking into the turn, the back wheel under some engine compression = supermoto slide

[tz250w]

Haven't seen it myself yet but apparently another controversial collision in FP3 today (Motegi) between Marquez and Mika Kalio.

Apparently Marc hit him hard enough from behind to bend Mika's swingarm and put him down, while Marc was able to continue on...


Edit: Just found the replay. Marquez runs wide entering the S curve, Kalio easily goes under and heads into the next right where Marquez basically refuses to yield (Kalio is at least 3/4 of a bike length ahead) and runs into his rear - though not hard enough to bend a swingarm, IMO...

Hard to call it a racing incident when it was FP and fairly obvious that he could see the line wasn't there.

[ieism]

What the... why would you even do that in FP? And no warning or penalty either, it's another 'racing incident'. It's unfair, and unsafe.

[Kropotkin]

Agree. In the race, it would be questionable, but I could live with it being classified as a racing incident. You're fighting for position. But in FP3? Really? Marquez is going to be paying a lot of fines next year. Race Direction are a lot tougher in MotoGP, and that's wrong.

[Cam D]

I'm not sure things will change. I thought it was just Maquez getting away with shit as usual, not sure that it will be any different in Motogp. He's the next annointed one for Dorna, they run a second set of books for Marc.

[MiniNinjaMk5]

Kallio's boss was really indignant about it, and rightly so. Lucky he didn't do it to him team mate, cause I could see Redding lumping Marquez ! Although perhaps that's what it's going to take, it doesn't seem like race direction are prepared to do anything, and how long before someone gets seriously injured by him (not discounting that Marquez already seriously injured himself last year for instance)?

[Gustav O]

Wilairot was seriously injured at PI last year but you can´t blame Marquez for his injury at Sepang as that was bad corner work from the marshalls.

[Squidpuppet]

Man, this kid needs to take a breath and think a bit more. I watched Moto2 FP3 and QP and he is just ragged as hell. Hugely talented and faster than shit, but he was close to causing numerous "incidents" during both sessions.

[Faster1]

~hero's and villains,, we need them both

I will enjoy rooting against MM next year as I will never agree with the heaps of praise he receives from the masses compared to other riders. I stand by my long time opinion that he has a better bike in moto2 than everyone because of the real boss of the motogp series ,,, HONDA. Yes I have no proof ,, only an opinion based on my own long term observation. As good as he is, he is no faster than Ionone, Espargaro, Bradle, Luthie and a few others. Yet its preferential treatment (rookie rule and a better bike) that fuel my dislike.

Time will tell if I am right or wrong, but we all need our hero's and villains Mark Marquez fuels my interest for next year as the latter.

,,,as far as I'm concerned put Randy DePunet on the same bike as MM, and MM gets his ass kicked Then again , that's the problem with today's gp,, the "bike" is the deciding factor to the results.

rant off ,, time to watch gp

[Tumi]

~hero's and villains,, we need them both
I will enjoy rooting against MM next year as I will never agree with the heaps of praise he receives from the masses compared to other riders. I stand by my long time opinion that he has a better bike in moto2 than everyone because of the real boss of the motogp series ,,, HONDA. Yes I have no proof ,, only an opinion based on my own long term observation. As good as he is, he is no faster than Ionone, Espargaro, Bradle, Luthie and a few others. Yet its preferential treatment (rookie rule and a better bike) that fuel my dislike.

Strange.. Kallio incident actually opened my eyes to a different view. I found it weird that Marquez got off line then found enough speed on a tighter line to catch Kallio, a decent rider on a proper line, and push him to a high side. Because of the incident I watched Marquez very closely during the race and realized how much more corner speed he had. During the first laps Marquez went past through the field with seemingly little effort and again made a few passes on an inside line with a quick burst of throttle, like he had a bit more grip than the rest.
I am not a fan but can't wait for next year to see Marquez debunk a few MotoGP myths. My guess is he'll be getting along just fine in that so called pool of sharks, already having sharper teeth than an average carnivore there. My prediction is he will be inside top 4 on the MotoGP 2013 classification, having as much (or more) sheer speed as anyone and loosing only because having at the moment less race craft, consistency and big bike experience. Yes, he's a 'golden boy' but there has to be a reason for that. Aki Ajo signed him because, after closely following their early careers, he thought Marquez showed more potential than Rossi. What has HRC thought of Marquez these last couple of years?

[Faster1]

~
fair post "Tumi"

,, to be continued

[Tumi]

~
fair post "Tumi"
,, to be continued

I may well be wrong, he could be useless on a big bike or there could be an injury or two somewhere or whatever. However he has done enough to be allowed into that HRC conveyor to carry him further and it'll be interesting to see how far he can reach. That first lap seen onboard impressed me a lot, certainly more than any other racer during last couple of years. This wasn't a factory rider going past satellite and CRT bikes after a bad start. This was Moto2 with much less difference between bikes yet he seemed to carry a lot more speed everywhere. Reminded me of a fast rider doing a track day on an intermediate group.

[Japhrodisiac]

Marquez really put on a show this round, not that he hasn't proven his riding abilities already, but the ease with which he dispatched the field coming from almost last off the line was remarkable.
I was further impressed that all the passes were clean too, I was waiting for a few instances of punt and run, but it didn't happen. Well done and good on him for a clean win and an amazing display.

That said, I do also have a creeping suspicion about his bike, it always seems faster than the rest, just a burst of speed when he needs it, and I'm not talking drive or cornering speed, it's simply brute power that the others don't seem to have. ??

[Tourn46]

I just think Marquez is clearly that much better than the Moto2 field. Best riders get the best team who can provide the best set up bike.

I personally think there is just a bit of that "cheer for the underdog" mentality on here sometimes.

[Cam D]

Or maybe some people don't hero worship as much. If you spend enough time trackside, watching what are supposed to be controlled race series, you realise that it's not really probable for one rider to be that much quicker, all the time. Especially when the bikes are suoposed to be equal on power. I believe he has an advantage.

edit: and if Marc can get away with running into other riders and it gets called "a racing incident", then I don't really think they (Dorna etc) are too concerned what happens as long as Marc wins.

[Squidpuppet]

The "Best Team" cant "set up" a sealed engine and a control ECU any better than any other team.

[Japhrodisiac]

I personally think there is just a bit of that "cheer for the underdog" mentality on here sometimes.

I'm not sure what fun or sport there is in cheering for the overdog either, but to each their own.

David earlier alluded to a technical team member in Moto2 mentioning that they were sure that Marquez' team were cheating, but we haven't heard any more on that. I'm sure that his team is excellent, and that Suter has shown to favor Marc with special parts but this doesn't fully explain the difference in speed. Cornering speed - all Marquez. Straight line speed independent of drive - clever mapping setup or ??? We'll likely never know

It really makes little difference to the outcome, in all likelihood. He is clearly a step above the others, with perhaps Espargaro 2nd then Iannone, Redding and a couple of others close as well. Rabat had a nice run today too.

Whenever you have a spec anything series there will be cheating, attempts at cheating, and simply talk of cheating, rumours, innuendo etc. Often, there is some truth to it.

[Grahluk]

Tumi in for first MM fanboi. Just kidding. Marc remains a polarizing figure. I find myself rooting for and against him so even as a single observer I feel both sides of the polarization.
He's clearly supremely talented even if his team has figured out how to game the Moto2 formula. He's like the borg of the top GP aliens. Fast as Danni, smooth as Jorge, aggressive as Casey, cunning as Rossi, and unfortunately sometimes as boneheaded & reckless as the late Sic at his worst. I very much look forward to his MotoGP debut. I think the grid can use an alien cut from the pit fighting of Moto2 than the current apex 250 graduates. I think it's not out of the question that he could mix it up front in his first year. I suspect that potential is equally met with the likelihood that he'll be launching himself into the stratosphere a few times as Jorge did adapting to the big bikes. What I fear is his unrestrained aggression & inexperience sending himself or fellow rider to the hospital or morgue. People can still die in this sport in case anyone's forgotten.

[Japhrodisiac]

Great post Grahluk. Sums up my mixed feelings as well nicely.

Here's a great video of the first lap by Marquez. While he shows tremendous bravery, braking skill and bike placement, he also gets a lot of help from the engine.
http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/riders/ ... +at+Motegi

[Tourn46]

Great post Grahluk. Sums up my mixed feelings as well nicely.

Here's a great video of the first lap by Marquez. While he shows tremendous bravery, braking skill and bike placement, he also gets a lot of help from the engine.
http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/riders/ ... +at+Motegi

Don't you mean he gets a lot of help by putting his bike into space so he can open the throttle while the other riders trip themselves up around him?

[MiniNinjaMk5]

~
fair post "Tumi"
,, to be continued

I may well be wrong, he could be useless on a big bike or there could be an injury or two somewhere or whatever. However he has done enough to be allowed into that HRC conveyor to carry him further and it'll be interesting to see how far he can reach. That first lap seen onboard impressed me a lot, certainly more than any other racer during last couple of years. This wasn't a factory rider going past satellite and CRT bikes after a bad start. This was Moto2 with much less difference between bikes yet he seemed to carry a lot more speed everywhere. Reminded me of a fast rider doing a track day on an intermediate group.

I agree, that first lap was absolutely incredible. Bogging off the line like that would have made most riders take at least a lap to get their head together. The thing was, if Marquez had done that, he would never have had a chance of getting to the front as the field would have been too spread out. So he put his head down and cut through the field like he was playing Super Hang-On!

The guys is supremely talented - but then are so many other riders. We will only find out exactly how talented though when he rides on the RCV next year. I do think though that, again more than most other riders, he seems to have absolutely zero fear - no conception at all of his own mortality, and even after bad crashes you see him smiling and it's like it is all a game to him. I'm both excited and fearful of the thought of him racing in GP's next year, but I hope he can reign it in just a little bit before he gets involved in an even more serious accident than before.