Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Oscar on Thu Nov 18, 2010 9:29 am

Nice find, Cam D.

Call me an old cynic, but if Burgess says it's no big deal, then it is a big deal. The old bugger would tell you it's night when the sun is shining if it suited his purposes. Preziosi is out the back of the shed with an oxy-set and a giant economy size tub of C/F pre-preg cloth right now

Anybody want to bet that JB will be able to see snow from his bedroom window on Christmas eve?
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby sir_nj on Thu Nov 18, 2010 11:37 am

JanBros wrote:
sir_nj wrote:and your point is :roll:

Go on, admit it, it is fun though :lol:


well, that was my point :lol:


yeah, just checking that was your point ;)


Oscar wrote:Anybody want to bet that JB will be able to see snow from his bedroom window on Christmas eve?


Didn't know JB spent chrissy in Hobart :shock:

(if f'n snowed one chrissy day in Hobart, I remember riding my brand new dragster with snow blowing in my face thinking "wow, wtf")
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Tormo4ever on Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:05 pm

When it was announced that Rossi was going to Ducati, i thought that HE hasn't really made the choice. He was kind of thrown out of Yamaha. Suzuki is not an option. Let's suppose Honda didn t look at him, Rossi would have made the move to Ducati because he had no other choice. I am sure it was not his bike of choice.

This is going to put Rossi AND Ducati to the test. Right now, and regardless of the valencia laptimes, i would not bet on them.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Gustav O on Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:29 pm

Tormo4ever wrote:When it was announced that Rossi was going to Ducati, i thought that HE hasn't really made the choice. He was kind of thrown out of Yamaha. Suzuki is not an option. Let's suppose Honda didn t look at him, Rossi would have made the move to Ducati because he had no other choice. I am sure it was not his bike of choice.

This is going to put Rossi AND Ducati to the test. Right now, and regardless of the valencia laptimes, i would not bet on them.

Really? I have the distinct feeling that Yamaha seriously wanted Rossi to stay but he could not live with the fact that Lorenzo was beating him on "his" bike and Yamaha would not let go of their future star so when Ducati became a serious alternative he went for the challenge.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby TwoStroke Institute on Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:48 pm

There was a magazine report here Sept 09 with the Rossi to Ducati story based on the back of a security guard's sighting of Rossi and Ucchio at Ducati HQ in the dead of night. Seemed wild and far fetched at the time, but (as always) with the benefit of 20/20 hindsight beliveable now. Seems there has been tension at Yamaha for a while.

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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Rusty Bucket USA on Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:02 pm

Gustav O wrote:I have the distinct feeling that Yamaha seriously wanted Rossi to stay but he could not live with the fact that Lorenzo was beating him on "his" bike and Yamaha would not let go of their future star so when Ducati became a serious alternative he went for the challenge.

I agree, exactly.

To TSI's point, I think the "tension" over there was the combination of Lorenzo's presence, and the looming departure of Furusawa - both of which were easily visible that far back.

Call me less cynical than Oscar, I just can't help wondering where I'd already read all that stuff JB said... ;)


Oscar wrote:...anyone who still thinks Stoner was being a wuss when he started on the downhill health slide in early '09 and was stepping off the thing almost catatonically shagged-out is just not being objective... Riding the Duc is hand-to-hand combat.

Remember when it was "stress"? :lol:
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Tormo4ever on Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:39 pm

Gustav O wrote:Really? I have the distinct feeling that Yamaha seriously wanted Rossi to stay but he could not live with the fact that Lorenzo was beating him on "his" bike and Yamaha would not let go of their future star so when Ducati became a serious alternative he went for the challenge.


I live in Spain, and maybe the information i get is biased. What was being written here was that Furusawa wanted Rossi at all costs, but Jarvis and the rest wouldn t let go JL ...

Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Yam chose the younger guy ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo was to me a sign of weakness, unprecented in Rossi, and that surprised me . I remember in the Honda days he used to say he d give his bike to Max (max was on the pons honda then iirc) and still kick his ass!
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Gustav O on Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:57 pm

I really like Rossi but I think Yamaha did the right thing in standing fimr as far as Lorenzo was concerned. Some Rossi fans say that this is unfair to Rossi etc but I think Yamaha has to think of the bigger picture and to be able to continue to win after Rossi retires they need Lorenzo.
In my opinion Rossis ego essentially is what made a continued Yamaha ride impossible.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Oscar on Fri Nov 19, 2010 12:48 am

Given the way things have panned out, someone with an overdeveloped whimsy gland might feel that Rossi's Valencia test has gone from potential high drama: " I come not to praise Stoner, but to bury him" to something less classical: "Any team that would have me, I wouldn't want to join". (Apologies: W. Shakespeare, G. Marx)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby ipso on Fri Nov 19, 2010 1:54 am

Tormo4ever wrote:“Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo”

This really needs support before it can be taken seriously. Do you have support for this?

This is my understanding. Rossi simply made the decision to make more money.

Curious - what were the lap times from the first test when Rossi went to Yamaha? I wonder how he looked comparatively back then?

(My money is on Rossi to pole and win the first race next year.)

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mercedes sponsorship/link (What?, will the factory Ducati be silver? Possibly Rossi to cultivate a Mercedes F1 ride?)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Cam D on Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:57 am

ipso wrote:
Tormo4ever wrote:“Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo”

This really needs support before it can be taken seriously. Do you have support for this?

This is my understanding. Rossi simply made the decision to make more money.

Curious - what were the lap times from the first test when Rossi went to Yamaha? I wonder how he looked comparatively back then?

(My money is on Rossi to pole and win the first race next year.)

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mercedes sponsorship/link (What?, will the factory Ducati be silver? Possibly Rossi to cultivate a Mercedes F1 ride?)


Rossi said the money was the same as Yamaha offered.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Tormo4ever on Fri Nov 19, 2010 10:39 am

Ipso, what i write is what i hear, i am afraid i am no insider- i just participate in a forum in Spain where some knowledgeable sources take part. Thus the usual caveats in my posts. My understanding is that Rossi is making pretty much the same money he made at Yamaha; my impression, he was "invited" to leave when he made it clear he wasn't going to share team with Jorge L
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Rossifumi on Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:01 am

ipso wrote:
Tormo4ever wrote:“Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo”

This really needs support before it can be taken seriously. Do you have support for this?



Rossi was interviewed on BBC (UK's national broadcaster) and stated categorically that Yamaha had to decide between him and Lorenzo.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby motor on Fri Nov 19, 2010 3:43 pm

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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby alrova on Fri Nov 19, 2010 5:41 pm

ipso wrote:
Tormo4ever wrote:“Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo”

This really needs support before it can be taken seriously. Do you have support for this?

This is my understanding. Rossi simply made the decision to make more money.

Curious - what were the lap times from the first test when Rossi went to Yamaha? I wonder how he looked comparatively back then?

(My money is on Rossi to pole and win the first race next year.)

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mercedes sponsorship/link (What?, will the factory Ducati be silver? Possibly Rossi to cultivate a Mercedes F1 ride?)

As far as i know they are a silent sponsor, meaning is just for marketing their cars, the mercedes logo will not be in the Ducati's but this could change.

First race unless they changed it is qatar, i seriously doubt Rossi will pole and win that one.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby WayneG on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:16 pm

alrova wrote:
ipso wrote:
Tormo4ever wrote:“Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo”

This really needs support before it can be taken seriously. Do you have support for this?

This is my understanding. Rossi simply made the decision to make more money.

Curious - what were the lap times from the first test when Rossi went to Yamaha? I wonder how he looked comparatively back then?

(My money is on Rossi to pole and win the first race next year.)

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mercedes sponsorship/link (What?, will the factory Ducati be silver? Possibly Rossi to cultivate a Mercedes F1 ride?)

As far as i know they are a silent sponsor, meaning is just for marketing their cars, the mercedes logo will not be in the Ducati's but this could change.

First race unless they changed it is qatar, i seriously doubt Rossi will pole and win that one.


There is much more to the Mercedes link if this is correct - http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/254241/
It appears Ducati may be German owned in years to come.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby RatsMC on Fri Nov 19, 2010 6:44 pm

ipso wrote:
Tormo4ever wrote:“Apparently, Rossi had made it clear it was him or Lorenzo ... Rossi asking Yamaha to drop Lorenzo”

This really needs support before it can be taken seriously. Do you have support for this?

This is my understanding. Rossi simply made the decision to make more money.



The money was the same
And
Yamaha Have to decide between me and Jorge
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Cam D on Fri Nov 19, 2010 11:44 pm

I don’t think anyone has mentioned the Mercedes sponsorship/link (What?, will the factory Ducati be silver? Possibly Rossi to cultivate a Mercedes F1 ride?)


That seems to discount the "FIAT will go with Rossi because they are his personal sponsor" theory. I doubt they would like Mercedes sniffing around. If Jorge ends up with Fiat sponsorship that would be similar to when Rossi pinched Max's personal sponsor - Camel. :)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Sat Nov 20, 2010 9:01 pm

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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby JanBros on Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:37 pm

11 pages off gessing, while this picture reveals it all why Rossi was off the pace :

Image

the others are warned : he ran without front discs :D
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Albert on Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:52 pm

Squidpuppet wrote:Thanks for those. One second on the bike and the tank is all wrong. :lol:


So you've never sat on a bike and thought, "This doesn't feel as comfortable as I would prefer??" :roll:
I know that I have!
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Sun Nov 21, 2010 12:21 am

Albert wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:Thanks for those. One second on the bike and the tank is all wrong. :lol:


[b]So you've never sat on a bike and thought, "This doesn't feel as comfortable as I would prefer??" :roll:
I know that I have!
One of the most comfortable bikes that I ever sat on was my old Triton, simply because it was built by me, for me! A close second was my daughter's RG250 Suzi. Her old GPZ felt good but her GS500 feels completely alien!
[/b]


No need to roll your eyes at me Albert. ;)

Of course I have. Many times. If my levers and pedals are off by a single MM it drives me insane. I make my own kneesliders because I am so OCD about my gear. In 45 years, none of my bikes have visited a mechanic because THEY wont take care of her as well as I will. I mount and balance my own tires because I want it done "right". Of the dozens of bikes I have paid for, I have never felt that I "owned" them. I have had relationships with them, or a partnership if you will. I get as much pleasure from tuning, lubing, adjusting, modifying and cleaning my bikes as I do riding them. Well, almost. For me, riding bikes fast is more than a hobby. At the risk of sounding like a looney, its almost a spiritual thing for me. I feel "right" when I am riding, the rest of the hours of my life feel ever so slighty eskew.

My comment was meant as a STRONG compliment to Rossis analytical approach and attention to every detail, regardless of how small or seemingly unimportant to others. I found humor in (and related to) the fact that he mounted the bike and his instant and natural response was to immediately begin critiquing and identifying problems and issues that would need to be addressed. He's not guessing, he KNOWS what he needs. I like that in a motocyclist, and thats why he is The Doctor.

Indulge me in a bit of speculation here, as I am VERY guilty of reading between the lines, but I am hopeful that Rossi will be able to a accept emotionally, and adapt to riding an ugly bike. My gut says he thinks she is fugly, and not to his liking. As you well know he has always been very passionate about his bikes (they arent just a tool to him), and spends many a pre-race evening talking to her. Bonding. In the video where he takes us through all the versions of "his" M1, we can see how he caresses them, we can see and hear his fondness of the bikes.

I mean no insult to any Ducati fans, as I find their showroom and WSBK bikes gorgeous, but their GP bike is a hideous beast in my eyes. Portly and bulbous chest. A tank that looks like WWII military issue. The tail section has no idea what it wants to be, with lines that DONT flow and angles that are symetrically as unbalanced as a post-crash Hyundai. Completely engulfed in cobby bodywork that hides any and all mechanical detail, and a swing arm that...well...belongs on something John Deere would sell. I suspect that Vale sees the bike in a similar light and will be doing his best to overcome these irrational prejudices. Or, the Ducatis appearance will change. ;)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Oscar on Sun Nov 21, 2010 3:40 am

The '11 Duc is no looker, that's for sure - but it is probably damn good aerodynamically, extrapolating from their previous success and their connections (Ferrari).

Aerodynamics is bloody complex, and what 'looks' great quite often isn't. If you look, for instance, at the current crop of 'plastic' (composite-construction) light aircraft with their thin tailcones, they look marvelously swoopy and efficient. Here's onesuch: a 'Carbon Sting'`(fibreglass composite, carbon-fibre wings)

Image

Then go look at a Whitman 'Tailwind', designed in 1953:

Image

The Tailwind has a boxy, slab-sided fuselage, straight (untapered) wings, struts, a flat windscreen. The fuselage is steel tube covered with cloth, FFS, while the wings are covered in plywood. And it will disappear over the horizon in a speed contest with a Sting.

Oh, and as for that bloody enormous C/f swing-arm, have a gander at Stoner's swing-arm:

Image
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Albert on Sun Nov 21, 2010 11:45 am

Squidpuppet wrote:My comment was meant as a STRONG compliment to Rossis analytical approach and attention to every detail, regardless of how small or seemingly unimportant to others. I found humor in (and related to) the fact that he mounted the bike and his instant and natural response was to immediately begin critiquing and identifying problems and issues that would need to be addressed. He's not guessing, he KNOWS what he needs. I like that in a motocyclist, and thats why he is The Doctor.


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