Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:02 pm

Oscar wrote:The '11 Duc is no looker, that's for sure - but it is probably damn good aerodynamically, extrapolating from their previous success and their connections (Ferrari).

Aerodynamics is bloody complex, and what 'looks' great quite often isn't. If you look, for instance, at the current crop of 'plastic' (composite-construction) light aircraft with their thin tailcones, they look marvelously swoopy and efficient. Here's onesuch: a 'Carbon Sting'`(fibreglass composite, carbon-fibre wings)


Then go look at a Whitman 'Tailwind', designed in 1953:


The Tailwind has a boxy, slab-sided fuselage, straight (untapered) wings, struts, a flat windscreen. The fuselage is steel tube covered with cloth, FFS, while the wings are covered in plywood. And it will disappear over the horizon in a speed contest with a Sting.

Oh, and as for that bloody enormous C/f swing-arm, have a gander at Stoner's swing-arm:


I have to say, my tastes find the HRC swing arm to be a work of art. Its elegant. :mrgreen:
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Sun Nov 21, 2010 8:06 pm

Albert wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:My comment was meant as a STRONG compliment to Rossis analytical approach and attention to every detail, regardless of how small or seemingly unimportant to others. I found humor in (and related to) the fact that he mounted the bike and his instant and natural response was to immediately begin critiquing and identifying problems and issues that would need to be addressed. He's not guessing, he KNOWS what he needs. I like that in a motocyclist, and thats why he is The Doctor.


My sincere apologies!
Mrs Albert has gone for the cake slice so that I can have a generous helping of humble pie! :oops:


No worries Albert. Any thoughts on my extremely broad brush strokes about Rossis likin' or not likin' the Duc's party dress? :)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Albert on Sat Nov 27, 2010 10:09 am

Squidpuppet wrote:
No worries Albert. Any thoughts on my extremely broad brush strokes about Rossis likin' or not likin' the Duc's party dress? :)


Never got back to this until now, sorry! (too much work related cr*p going on at the moment!) :evil:

It's certainly not the prettiest thing out there, and it's rather plain and ugly in my opinion, although Alan Jenkins would probably disagree with us! Bearing Mr Jenkins background in mind it's obviously quite aero-dynamic but it will possibly need to be re-designed a little to accommodate Valentino (as did the original RC211V) who is considerably taller than the other riders!
The figures I've found have Casey at 171cm whilst Vale is 182cm - which may be part of the answer for the comments regarding his seating/riding position!
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Oscar on Sat Nov 27, 2010 1:02 pm

Well, the fall-out - if indeed it isn't melt-down of China Syndrome proportions - of Rossi's appreciation of the Ducati continues with the Jerez test (a place fit best for Ducks, it would seem).. From the Home page:

Guareschi told GPOne.com that Ducati's engineering guru Filippo Preziosi was working on new parts for the Desmosedici, including narrower front forks and more flexible triple clamps, all aimed at improving the feedback from the Ducati's front end, which was the area which Rossi had complained most about at the Valencia tests.


We've already seen photo evidence that Ducati provided at least one different iteration of the triple clamp with softened characteristics from what I think Stoner et al. had been given. It would be interesting to have been a fly on the wall to hear if Rossi preferred that set-up, though Guareschi's comments suggests that it may have been favourably received.

Acknowledging as always my pro-Stoner bias, I can't help but feel that the contrast between the 'we can't afford to make changes, just dig deeper, Casey' response and the speed with which Ducati now appears to be moving to change the characteristics of the thing with the regime change is an affirmation of just how much Ducati had come to rely on Stoner being able to pull something extra out of the bag. That Hayden had managed to become so reasonably competitive this year appears also to be a huge credit to his ability and his dogged perserverance to succeed.

If Ducati has a sense of history, someone up there might just also be undertaking somewhat of a re-appraisal of Capirex's performance in '07 with, I would hope, more than a smidgeon of regret at their action in dumping him for '08. As an incurable romantic (speaking emotionally rather than medically ;) ) I'd like to believe that someone will toddle along to Pramac next year with a large box full of revised bits and leave it inconspicuously in a corner of the pit box every now and then before the old warrior is broken by the beast.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby ducati1098s on Sat Nov 27, 2010 2:16 pm

MCN's year review book has a photo of the cut away top clamp that Rossi was trying at Valencia pictured on the bike at Misano. So it certainly wasn't a new piece given especially to VR to try and presumably was rejected by CS
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Sat Nov 27, 2010 4:55 pm

Oscar wrote:Acknowledging as always my pro-Stoner bias, I can't help but feel that the contrast between the 'we can't afford to make changes, just dig deeper, Casey' response and the speed with which Ducati now appears to be moving to change the characteristics of the thing with the regime change is an affirmation of just how much Ducati had come to rely on Stoner being able to pull something extra out of the bag. That Hayden had managed to become so reasonably competitive this year appears also to be a huge credit to his ability and his dogged perserverance to succeed.



This is very much the sense I got from Stoner. He never attacked Ducati, and was always very protective of them, but the sense I got was that he was tired of asking for changes that never came.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Rusty Bucket USA on Mon Nov 29, 2010 4:37 am

Albert wrote:The figures I've found have Casey at 171cm whilst Vale is 182cm - which may be part of the answer for the comments regarding his seating/riding position!

Considering that they waited until the end of this year to finally figure out the position and weight distribution were not even good for Stoner (and his troubled wrist), that is rather substantial understatement!
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby TwoStroke Institute on Mon Nov 29, 2010 3:03 pm

Not to worry as the wayward Ducati's are FOR SALE. Spares might be a problem as looks as though GP11 might be a clean sheet approach
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Mon Nov 29, 2010 6:47 pm

TwoStroke Institute wrote:Not to worry as the wayward Ducati's are FOR SALE. Spares might be a problem as looks as though GP11 might be a clean sheet approach


My goodness, you may be right. They are even unloading the one VR tested. :o
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Mon Nov 29, 2010 7:23 pm

Squidpuppet wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:Not to worry as the wayward Ducati's are FOR SALE. Spares might be a problem as looks as though GP11 might be a clean sheet approach


My goodness, you may be right. They are even unloading the one VR tested. :o


There is no way in hell that those are real. Idiot fodder for the stupidly rich. Given that the lease (LEASE!) price of a MotoGP bike is in the region of $3 million, you're not going to pick them up from a dealer for a couple of hundred grand...
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Mon Nov 29, 2010 8:15 pm

Kropotkin wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:Not to worry as the wayward Ducati's are FOR SALE. Spares might be a problem as looks as though GP11 might be a clean sheet approach


My goodness, you may be right. They are even unloading the one VR tested. :o


There is no way in hell that those are real. Idiot fodder for the stupidly rich. Given that the lease (LEASE!) price of a MotoGP bike is in the region of $3 million, you're not going to pick them up from a dealer for a couple of hundred grand...


I just ordered two. They charged my credit card and gave me a tracking number. Have I been had? :lol:
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:11 pm

Squidpuppet wrote:I just ordered two. They charged my credit card and gave me a tracking number. Have I been had? :lol:


Hey! Guess what I just found at the back of my garage! Another Desmosedici GP10! Wanna buy another one to keep those two company? :lol:
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Faster1 on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:16 pm

,,they don't mention "complete".

Is it possible that they are drastically incomplete, like minus engine, all electronics, etc? I've seen all kinds of actual race cars for sale minus the power-train.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Mon Nov 29, 2010 10:33 pm

Kropotkin wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:I just ordered two. They charged my credit card and gave me a tracking number. Have I been had? :lol:


Hey! Guess what I just found at the back of my garage! Another Desmosedici GP10! Wanna buy another one to keep those two company? :lol:


It depends, what are you asking for it? Is it red or raw carbon? :D
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby TwoStroke Institute on Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:49 pm

Kropotkin wrote:
Squidpuppet wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:Not to worry as the wayward Ducati's are FOR SALE. Spares might be a problem as looks as though GP11 might be a clean sheet approach


My goodness, you may be right. They are even unloading the one VR tested. :o


There is no way in hell that those are real. Idiot fodder for the stupidly rich. Given that the lease (LEASE!) price of a MotoGP bike is in the region of $3 million, you're not going to pick them up from a dealer for a couple of hundred grand...


Seller assures me they are real thing , fully funtional and invites inspections & demos, no test rides unfortunately.................................. :roll:
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:11 pm

TwoStroke Institute wrote:Seller assures me they are real thing , fully funtional and invites inspections & demos, no test rides unfortunately.................................. :roll:


Oh well, if the seller says they're real, they must be. Right? ;)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Albert on Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:34 pm

This has pricked my curiosity! :roll:

As Krop correctly states, the lease price for these things is collosal given that the lease price includes back-up, spares etc --- but what is the actual cost of building one?

Surely Ducati cannot be selling them for build cost alone with none of the "extras" included?

We need to get to the back door at the Factory and see what they wheel out to be sold next! ;)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby phil on Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:08 pm

Kropotkin wrote:
TwoStroke Institute wrote:Seller assures me they are real thing , fully funtional and invites inspections & demos, no test rides unfortunately.................................. :roll:


Oh well, if the seller says they're real, they must be. Right? ;)

Surely they must have some sort of provenance to substantiate their claims??
The plethora of other machines they have does serve to validate their claims.
But then again the illusion of authenticity is the backbone of many a fraudulent scam I suppose....
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Tue Nov 30, 2010 6:36 pm

phil wrote:Surely they must have some sort of provenance to substantiate their claims??
The plethora of other machines they have does serve to validate their claims.
But then again the illusion of authenticity is the backbone of many a fraudulent scam I suppose....

Would you be able to tell whether the documentation provided was forged or not? Do you even know what kind of documentation should or would be supplied with an ex-MotoGP racer? I know I don't. However, my "if it sounds too good to be true" alarm bells are going off.

I would want to see photos of the bikes, which I could compare to photos of the real thing, before I made a decision. My guess is that these were former display bikes that have been tarted up for sale. But I have no evidence to base that guess on.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby ieism on Tue Nov 30, 2010 7:36 pm

I don't see any motogp bikes on that site at all, looks like somebody already bought it.. :lol:

Oh, and you cannot post links to sites like that a few weeks before I get my X-mas bonus. I promised the wife we would get a new kitchen, but i'm not so sure now...
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Squidpuppet on Tue Nov 30, 2010 8:22 pm

ieism wrote:I don't see any motogp bikes on that site at all, looks like somebody already bought it.. :lol:

Oh, and you cannot post links to sites like that a few weeks before I get my X-mas bonus. I promised the wife we would get a new kitchen, but i'm not so sure now...


Damnit! I hope my order shipped. ;)
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby phil on Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:01 pm

Kropotkin wrote:Would you be able to tell whether the documentation provided was forged or not?

I'm no fool- I scrutinised the documents closely and noticed a definite spaghetti sauce stain on the upper right hand corner...
Can't get more legit than that!!
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Tue Nov 30, 2010 9:12 pm

phil wrote:
Kropotkin wrote:Would you be able to tell whether the documentation provided was forged or not?

I'm no fool- I scrutinised the documents closely and noticed a definite spaghetti sauce stain on the upper right hand corner...
Can't get more legit than that!!

You've convinced me!
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby TwoStroke Institute on Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:46 pm

Race bikes provenence is fairly easy to establish, especialy one that is so recent with engines that must be accounted for, and let's face it if you had over a 1/4 million pounds to spend on a bike an extra 1000 on the 'check before the cheque' wouldn't be a problem. I couldn't believe when I saw adverts for 2 and 3 year old Ferrari F1 cars for sale, included was a spares and back up plan where mechanics/technicians flown out to assist with running at displays etc.
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Re: Valencia Tests, dreams and predictions

Postby Kropotkin on Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:40 am

TwoStroke Institute wrote:Race bikes provenence is fairly easy to establish, especialy one that is so recent with engines that must be accounted for, and let's face it if you had over a 1/4 million pounds to spend on a bike an extra 1000 on the 'check before the cheque' wouldn't be a problem. I couldn't believe when I saw adverts for 2 and 3 year old Ferrari F1 cars for sale, included was a spares and back up plan where mechanics/technicians flown out to assist with running at displays etc.

I'll bet they weren't going for a couple of hundred grand though ...
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