Amazing Milling

[motomania]

It's incredible what can be done now with the CAD and computer aided milling, etc. Here's a great example, from a small block of aluminum to small intricate helmet.

[RatsMC]

That thing blew my mind. We have a 5 axis shop down here where I get my metal stock and they have a bunch of crap laying around the counter that was done on the machine. All of it is just beyond my comprehension.

[MarvoGing]

I had no idea. It is like a pixar animation. Fascinating, thanks mm.

[Albert]

Awesome is a word that is often mis-used --- but what the Hell -- Awesome!

(makes my poor old 2 axis machine look pre-historic -- a bit like it's operator I guess!)

[Faster1]

,, I just want to wear it..

[phil]

[RatsMC]

That's pretty cool phil but that would make a really terrible helmet. I mean, I couldn't even find the head hole.

[tom]

It's mesmerising watching that machine at work.

[phil]

That's pretty cool phil but that would make a really terrible helmet. I mean, I couldn't even find the head hole.

Duct tape and a bit of imagination mate....

[Albert]

Watching these videos reminds me of the Roberts MotoGP V5. To avoid stresses in the metals caused by welding one of their ex-F1 people came up with the idea of making the chassis from solid.
It was done on a 5 axis machine and took 400 hours of work from start to finish!
McWill tested it at Valencia and after 5 laps reported excellent handling -- Kurtis Roberts took it out and crashed it on his second lap!
The fuel tank split and the whole thing caught fire!

End result? Total write off after 6 and a bit laps!

They never made another!

[Oscar]

Watching these videos reminds me of the Roberts MotoGP V5. To avoid stresses in the metals caused by welding one of their ex-F1 people came up with the idea of making the chassis from solid.

Blimey - they could have achieved almost the same result from post-welding heat treatment - a classic case methinks of 'the last 5% costing 95% of the budget'. Sometimes engineers can't see the wood for the trees...

However, the amazing capabilities of 5-axis CNC plus some of the other computer-based capabilities fairly readily available for not outrageous amounts of money will democratise prototype development to the benefit of the sport, I believe. Just a few examples:

FEA (finite element analysis) software is sufficiently mature that it is no longer a case of 'build it, break it and see what it did' for most components, other than perhaps things which are built right to the last squillionth of performance of the material.

3-D 'printing' allows the creation of incredibly complex and accurate models of components at low cost without having to go to metal or machining. For instance, a complete head can be printed and flow-tested and the best solution found before production begins. The drawing used for the printing solution can then be taken through a CNC machining simulation to determine the capability and sequencing for machining, and it can also be used to create the moulds / model for casting if that is what is required.

Fluid dynamics software can remove much of the suck it and see development of aerodynamics and the need for high-speed wind tunnel testing.

Of course, when so much can be modelled and created via computer applications, the trick to best performance becomes not so much a matter of having the capability to build the thing but having the knowledge of exactly what to do - the data resources of what worked best, if you like. The manufacturers will always have an edge in data resources (and I suspect that is why they destroy old bikes, lest they fall into the hands of someone who can reverse-engineer the things to extract the figures of what makes it good).

However, the availability of these techniques holds out the possibility that someone - a latter-day John Britten - can make a number of inspired guesses and come up with a truly competitive bike that can in fact be produced. I'd like to believe that not even the MSMA can wangle things so that does not happen.

[TwoStroke Institute]

I work with simulators and all they do is remove the guesswork or short cut the trial and error. That is very useful when designing an expansion chamber for instance, instead of the first metal pipe being my best guess, the first metal pipe will be the result of 200 sim runs a cardboard template and a email to the laser cutter. It the end the customer has better product.
The days of guess work are over, but in saying the better your grounding the better your understanding of the simulator output. Sort of like a young surgeon and a old hand looking at the same MRI scan.

[motomania]

I work with simulators and all they do is remove the guesswork or short cut the trial and error. That is very useful when designing an expansion chamber for instance, instead of the first metal pipe being my best guess, the first metal pipe will be the result of 200 sim runs a cardboard template and a email to the laser cutter. It the end the customer has better product.
The days of guess work are over, but in saying the better your grounding the better your understanding of the simulator output. Sort of like a young surgeon and a old hand looking at the same MRI scan.

In other words, there's no replacement for experience?

[phil]

It seems I've discovered who that helmet was made for...

Put's us old manual programmers in our place eh Albert!!

[Albert]

Put's us old manual programmers in our place eh Albert!!

Jeez Phil - I get stuck if there's anything more than X and Z axes to deal with!

[TwoStroke Institute]

I work with simulators and all they do is remove the guesswork or short cut the trial and error. That is very useful when designing an expansion chamber for instance, instead of the first metal pipe being my best guess, the first metal pipe will be the result of 200 sim runs a cardboard template and a email to the laser cutter. It the end the customer has better product.
The days of guess work are over, but in saying the better your grounding the better your understanding of the simulator output. Sort of like a young surgeon and a old hand looking at the same MRI scan.

In other words, there's no replacement for experience?

No the opposite the simulator IS the the experience, it is a matter of being able to look at and interpret complex graphs of Mach indexes, pressure traces and the pressure/time history of the engine. You are the required to make decisions based on graphs not a real engine.Just as doctors are making decisions on images that is not the real live body.


Try MasterCAM writes the G Code for you

[phil]

Question to TSI...
By chance I have a 2008 edition of Fast Bikes Magazine in my locker at work which although having read it from cover to cover several times I still take to the 'cubicle' with me.
Today I read that on the 2008 ZZR1400 they changed the injector angle from (say) 15° to (say) 12° to give better atomisation and (presumably) a cleaner burn.
My question to you is with all this simulator technology could they not of simulated that, and actually my real question is, is it possible if a company knows they basically aren't going to do any major mod's for say 4 years they could 'de-tune' mildly with such minor mods and find a so-called wonder cure later?
Just a thought that popped into my cynical questioning mind...

Jeez Phil - I get stuck if there's anything more than X and Z axes to deal with!

C'mon Albert you've got a 'Y' axis in there too, you're being modest, I'm the original 2 axis-er!

[TwoStroke Institute]

Kawasaki were famous for the shim/rocker arm 2 step back in the ZXR750 days, alternative years they would switch between shim under bucket and rocker arm valve actuation, each time asserting one was better than the other
That could be entirely possible, that would be a cheap performance gain.

[phil]

I still love the old ZXR750's with the two 'air intakes' going down into the tank.
OK, everyone now knows their primary function was too direct flies and bugs into your airbox, but hay, they looked cool and I was younger.
So I still like them now!!

[RatsMC]

So...if you had access to one of these, what would you make? This question was recently posed to me and, in the moment, I couldn't think of anything. I'm sure if I had one in my garage, I'd come up with all sorts of dumb crap but everything I think of can be done on a standard mill.

[TwoStroke Institute]

Compound curved surfaces is what a CNC can do that is basicaly impossible on a manual mill.

[phil]

It would be nice to make a bespoke set of triple tree's (triple clamp or yokes).
Give em that MotoGP look.