Chasing the Holy Grail - Title Battle

[Rossifumi]

I've always doubted Pedrosa's 'luck'. But really he was quite lucky in the opening two rounds; he admitted as much himself, so maybe things are turning for him.

regarding Pedrosa's luck - case closed now!

[phil]

I've always doubted Pedrosa's 'luck'. But really he was quite lucky in the opening two rounds; he admitted as much himself, so maybe things are turning for him.

regarding Pedrosa's luck - case closed now!

It's a damn shame. I honestly believed the tables had turned for Dani.

[Faster1]

,, I can't count this one against him though,,, This was one of the first that he was taken out ,, as apposed to comfortably leading a race and stuffing all by himself

but the results are the same,,

[coyote]

I've always doubted Pedrosa's 'luck'. But really he was quite lucky in the opening two rounds; he admitted as much himself, so maybe things are turning for him.

What was lucky about Qatar?

[phil]

I've always doubted Pedrosa's 'luck'. But really he was quite lucky in the opening two rounds; he admitted as much himself, so maybe things are turning for him.

What was lucky about Qatar?

Lucky in so much as finishing a full motogp race without feeling in his right hand. (**EDIT** Left hand sorry)
Lucky is a bad turn of phrase, determined, skillfull or fortunate the race wasn't perhaps 2 laps longer is better.
Let's not forget to be a top club level racer is lucky genes in my book, to be considered alien is lottery stastics.
Dani is an incredibly fortunate man geneticly speaking,but not as much as Rossi, Stoner and Lorenzo.
As always this is just a guess.

[yzr750]

I think managing engine mileage could be a big issue this year, and I see that Stoner seems to be doing significantly less mileage in practice than anyone else, that could have a bearing on results toward the end of the year.
I wonder if the engines use more fuel as they get worn?

[Tormo4ever]

Looks like Dani won t race at Silverstone either. Again, Honda can only rely in one rider for their championghip chase.

[The Scribe]

Looks like Dani won t race at Silverstone either. Again, Honda can only rely in one rider for their championghip chase.

Confirmed:

I won't be at Silverstone

Source: http://blogs.repsol.com/competicion/dan ... a/-/blogs/

However, if he comes back fully fit (or fit enough), he will be able to take points from Lorenzo. This will help Honda get the championship, though Stoner might pull a '07 and don't need anybody.

[CLX]

I don't know about you guys, but I still think Lorenzo's chances are very good, even though he is NOT riding a Honda. There are few people to take points away from him and the M1 still is a very capable machine. Hanging on to Stoner will suffice until Yamaha find a a tenth or two in race pace. But they will need to find it eventually, preferably before Simoncelli restores his mojo and does some the job Dani should be doing.

As for Stoner, he just has to win after win after win and just let things work in his favour. He will hope Simoncelli has better weekends than the last, but not good enough to bother him.

[tom]

I don't know about you guys, but I still think Lorenzo's chances are very good, even though he is NOT riding a Honda. There are few people to take points away from him and the M1 still is a very capable machine. Hanging on to Stoner will suffice until Yamaha find a a tenth or two in race pace. But they will need to find it eventually, preferably before Simoncelli restores his mojo and does some the job Dani should be doing.

As for Stoner, he just has to win after win after win and just let things work in his favour. He will hope Simoncelli has better weekends than the last, but not good enough to bother him.

But that assumes Honda will rest on their laurels. I don't think they are going to take that risk, to much of their reputation is riding on wining this last year of 800's. My bet is the Honda will only get better compared to the Yamaha.

[ipso]

A MotoGP Stats query shows the various Constructors’ Championships grouped.



Anyone here know the circumstances for “Gilera – Not Recognized”? So there was no recognized winner that year (1954)?

And is it just a data error on their site that they have given two extra to Honda, or something .. more complex/nefarious going on?

This is my understanding.



From a Constructors’ Championship POV, Honda has a few to give to Yamaha, but from a Riders’ Championship POV they need this one and another to be absolute Big Dog over Yamaha. The two companies are more “neck-to-neck” than I had realized.

And the “nations race” puts a new spin on Spies vs. Crutchlow for Silverstone and beyond.

[sir_nj]

it might take someone like Super Sic to be the catalyst. While he is not 2011 WC material he is probably the major unknown for the top 3 and his antics good (he podiums with clean racing) or bad (he takes someone else out) could easily decide the WC.

bugger, just read that back and he has already had a major influence by eliminating one out of three.

Interesting isn't it that Honda has always (almost always, from mid 80s on, and not at the start of 2007) been considered to have more motor than anyone while Yamaha has (again, almost always) been considered a sweeter handling bike). At the end of the day it comes down to the rider who can use it to their advantage week in week out and gaining the maximum points or at least minimsing their losses. It would be really interesting to get inside Stoner's and Lorenzo's heads right now and see what they think about the WC and what their respective strategies are. Stoner, on a roll but still has to catch up, how much effort will be taken away from him when his team mate returns and he really really doesn't want to be knocked down again. Lorenzo, motor getting a little better but now he is only fighting one Honda whereas before at least they were taking points off each other.

I assume only these two are considering the WC. Has there ever been a WC where the person lying in 3rd or lower at this point in the season has become WC? Come to think of it, what position was NH at this point in 2006?

[yzr750]

I assume only these two are considering the WC. Has there ever been a WC where the person lying in 3rd or lower at this point in the season has become WC? Come to think of it, what position was NH at this point in 2006?

At this point in 2006 Hayden was leading the championship on 83 points (4 ahead of Melandri), interestingly Rossi was down in 8th place on just 40 points.

[Oscar]

I started out to write a diatribe against the eruption of fanboism on mtm since the announcement of the Ducati '11.1, complete with a list of suggested remedies including (but not limited to) having roving bands of mtm regulars ride out and gut 'em like clams, cladding them in baby harp seal skins and placing them on the ice at the start of the season, or just generally getting medieval of their arses with Maypoles and horse-collars.

However the wonderfully mollifying effects of fermented grape juice and a good repast has modified my intent.

As always I state my position as a 'Stoner-supporter' and add that I am also a 'fan' of Rossi (from his 125 days onwards and undiminished.) As fairly frequently I also state that I believe that THE story of the 800s era will forever be the Rossi vs. Stoner saga.

Now, much of the heat in the current raging debate/flaming war has centred on the general idea that the emergence of the Duc 11.1 will skew the outcome of the WC chase as it currently stands. Perhaps that will be so, but speaking personally I welcome it. Why?

The answer is simple: if both the Ducs and the Yams become visibly more competitive then should Stoner win this year, the 'best bike' argument will be at the very least, dulled. As things stand right now, (and we have yet to see just how much the Duc 11.1 has progressed), Stoner's last few races have lacked the depth of competition that would garner recognition as memorable victories - even though they have been solid wins and Silverstone was just demolition of the field (Lorenzo's protestation about his chances nonwithstanding.)

With the Yams evidently down on power, the Ducs not yet in the same damn pond, Pedrosa injured and realistically untenable as competition for at least four races this year (poor bugger) and Simoncelli yet to translate his speed into race prowess it all smacks of a way too smooth path for Stoner. To me that is a gross invalidation of the way he has been riding and managing his races but only a blind zealot would fail to admit that the lack of yardstick competition appears to support such a contention.

So, personally, I want to see Stoner take the WC as the result of winning stirring and memorable battles over the best the field has to offer. I want to see him holding off a Rossi in a no-holds-barred battle to the last lap, as in P.I. '09. I want to see him prevail over a fully fighting-fit Pedrosa after a half-dozen passes from each at stratospheric limits of competition. I want to see him finally nail Lorenzo in a sweeping outside pass on the second-last damn corner after having slugged it out for 22 or so laps.

None of that is going to happen unless the competition has an equal chance. So, more power to ye', Ducati - give Rossi his best shot and let the cards fall. Yamaha - pull yer bloody finger out. And Pedrosa - get better, get right back into the ring, lad, and make every bastard earn every point they get.

Oh, and Stoner- just keep doing it as you have so far, ratching it up a notch every time someone gets within spitting distance. THEN, me buckos, we will have a championship worth remembering.

[Tourn46]

Spot on Oscar.

I think a big problem is that we have a grid of 17 (at most) this season and with any noticable performance differences on bikes (to what extent I can't be bothered to go in to) it takes away from the spectacle for us fans of the sport.

Like yourself, I want to see a rider win battles against competition with the equipment to take it to them, that way we will see the men from the boys, who has real race-craft, ability to save tyres, etc, etc.

I don't like seeing Rossi struggling on a bike or with injury, Pedrosa out injured, Lorenzo not able to keep pace, etc. I want to see these guys race against each other, not just continue to finish like it's a parade.
It's difficult to say this without people thinking I'm taking anything away from any of the riders, but I don't think we will have seen the best from any of them should things not close up as bikes develop througout the season.

I don't want to see MotoGP move in the same direction as Moto2 with one engine, etc, but I do want it all to be closer and more specifically, down to the riders abilities, not the bike they are on.

[tom]

Like yourselves I also sincerely hope for tight tough battles on the track. I hope Oscar you didn't read anything contary to that in my posts on the Ducati goings on thread. If I came across as anti Rossi or Ducati then my sincere apologies to all.

Tourn46 again I must not have expressed myself very well in that thread, I also believe the best thing for MotoGP would be for Honda to look he other way and let Ducati catch up by bending the rules a little and I stated such. However i do believe the testing limits in general are in the best interests of the sport to protect the smaller manufactures. That is what i thought I said....

I feel chc-per points were completely misunderstood and feel that's why he got so frustrated. I really don't think he was being confrontational however that was the reaction he got which shocked me.

I am rattled at the thought that i might have contribited to a thread getting locked. I need to do some thinking about how i come across in my posts.

If this isn't the right place for this mods feel free to move or delete it.

[lucy]

Now, much of the heat in the current raging debate/flaming war has centred on the general idea that the emergence of the Duc 11.1 will skew the outcome of the WC chase as it currently stands. Perhaps that will be so, but speaking personally I welcome it. Why?

The vomit inducing aspect of the 11R2 isn't that it will affect the WC outcome but that it lays bare just how idiotic and lacking in self confidence the sport has become. Apparently a not terribly successful Rossi is an extinction level event. An existential threat that requires us the fold the pages of the rules on testing into convenient absorbent rectangles and use them as sanitary towels lest we study them too closely. I'm now boycotting the entire circus of whores and shall not watch one more lap of one more race. I'm done.

[Squidpuppet]

[
The vomit inducing aspect of the 11R2 isn't that it will affect the WC outcome but that it lays bare just how idiotic and lacking in self confidence the sport has become. Apparently a not terribly successful Rossi is an extinction level event. An existential threat that requires us the fold the pages of the rules on testing into convenient absorbent rectangles and use them as sanitary towels lest we study them too closely. I'm now boycotting the entire circus of whores and shall not watch one more lap of one more race. I'm done.

Suzuki being graced nine engines per season didnt drive you away, why now?

[chakraist]

Lucy, really? The Ducati thing just seems like a clever manipulation of the rules to me. Teams have been doing this sort of thing for years. If they want to retcon this year's bike that's fine, I guess. No need to get too butthurt over it

[9fingers]

[
The vomit inducing aspect of the 11R2 isn't that it will affect the WC outcome but that it lays bare just how idiotic and lacking in self confidence the sport has become. Apparently a not terribly successful Rossi is an extinction level event. An existential threat that requires us the fold the pages of the rules on testing into convenient absorbent rectangles and use them as sanitary towels lest we study them too closely. I'm now boycotting the entire circus of whores and shall not watch one more lap of one more race. I'm done.

Suzuki being graced nine engines per season didn't drive you away, why now?

I know you didn't asked me, and since I'm still watching MotoGP my answer isn't what you're looking for. But I can see an essential difference.
The rules were bent for Suzuki to help them survive (finish the season), not to help them win (or fight for the win). Also, the action came from the organizer towards Suzuki, not from a a team that chose to ignore a rule.

[Squidpuppet]

[
I know you didn't asked me, and since I'm still watching MotoGP my answer isn't what you're looking for. But I can see an essential difference.
The rules were bent for Suzuki to help them survive (finish the season), not to help them win (or fight for the win). Also, the action came from the organizer towards Suzuki, not from a a team that chose to ignore a rule.

No problem. IMO Suzuki could have finished the season while still participating WITHIN the rules. Suzuki could have just taken more engines and started from pit lane. In essence, the "tweak" of the rules allowed Suzuki to remain/become more competitive, no? Suzuki have had all of last year and the off season to improve their situation (engines) and they are still allowed this luxury a year later. Yet there is no uproar because we want them to stay.

My point is, I dont like people saying that "the GP world is once again bending over backwards for Lord Rossi", because thats just not fair when we look at what the GP world has done for Alvaro and Loris. The uproar is about favoritism, and that is a really unjust argument. The Powers-That-Be are simply "allowing" things to occur that will improve/maintain the health of the Show.

The MSMA cut Suzuki some slack and IMO they are doing the same for Ducati.

Lets not forget too, that Ducati have NOT ignored a rule. Testing days for 2012 bikes are still limited and they are consuming theirs. There is no promise that this strategy will payoff for them in the long run.

[frankrizzo]

I know this has been discussed and explored to great extent, and whilst not wishing to incite any dissent, I have to chip in. I don't see why there is any argument or even any question to answer. The difference is painfully simple - 200cc. As Krop says on the main site, adding those extra cubes, by very definition, makes any motorcycle not eligible and therefore entirely legal to test. I don't get why some folks are all in a twist.

[Tourn46]

Tourn46 again I must not have expressed myself very well in that thread, I also believe the best thing for MotoGP would be for Honda to look he other way and let Ducati catch up by bending the rules a little and I stated such. However i do believe the testing limits in general are in the best interests of the sport to protect the smaller manufactures. That is what i thought I said....

I am just looking at this as a completely new thread, I apologise if anything I mentioned above seemed related.

I just want to spend my Sundays watching the sport I love for the reasons I have always loved it over other motorsports and that is for the fierce on track battles. Don't get me wrong I'm sure many fans of 'X' rider would be happy to watch them run off and win every race, personally I would rather watch 'X' rider win against opponents with the gear to match them so we can see the best from 'X' rider and some excitement.

(This is not aimed at anyone, but to outline my intentions here on this forum as a whole... I want to enjoy debates and intelligent conversation and not get dragged into petty squabbles - which we are all guilty of now and then. I will when possible seek to use a generic term for a rider, because sometimes I feel the 46 in my username gets looked at closer than what I actually type)

[JoeKing]

So, personally, I want to see Stoner take the WC as the result of winning stirring and memorable battles over the best the field has to offer. I want to see him holding off a Rossi in a no-holds-barred battle to the last lap, as in P.I. '09. I want to see him prevail over a fully fighting-fit Pedrosa after a half-dozen passes from each at stratospheric limits of competition. I want to see him finally nail Lorenzo in a sweeping outside pass on the second-last damn corner after having slugged it out for 22 or so laps.

None of that is going to happen unless the competition has an equal chance. So, more power to ye', Ducati - give Rossi his best shot and let the cards fall. Yamaha - pull yer bloody finger out. And Pedrosa - get better, get right back into the ring, lad, and make every bastard earn every point they get.

Oscar, I think you are (futilely) attempting to lay the groundwork for the inevitable "Stoner only won the 2011 title because...." defense. Sadly, to the yellow horde there is only 1 worthy champion & only some perversion of destiny will result in Stoner winning.

As one of the 'Hayden-Supporters', we have had 4 years of dealing with this phenomemon. The truth is simply the obvious...the guy with the most points wins. To me one of the delights of the sport are all the vaguries & undeterminable events that lead to the final outcome.

So what if Casey is on the best bike & VR is riding a dog...it was his choice. Sure Jorge might be champion if the Yamaha was better, but it isn't. Dani might have been a spoiler had he not......... My point, the MotoGP championship involves men, machines, companies, organizers, fans, actions on-off track & MANY variables. Celebrate when your man wins & take comfort in the knowledge he deservered it, virtuosity is its own reward.

[9fingers]

[
I know you didn't asked me, and since I'm still watching MotoGP my answer isn't what you're looking for. But I can see an essential difference.
The rules were bent for Suzuki to help them survive (finish the season), not to help them win (or fight for the win). Also, the action came from the organizer towards Suzuki, not from a a team that chose to ignore a rule.

No problem. IMO Suzuki could have finished the season while still participating WITHIN the rules. Suzuki could have just taken more engines and started from pit lane. In essence, the "tweak" of the rules allowed Suzuki to remain/become more competitive, no? Suzuki have had all of last year and the off season to improve their situation (engines) and they are still allowed this luxury a year later. Yet there is no uproar because we want them to stay.

My point is, I dont like people saying that "the GP world is once again bending over backwards for Lord Rossi", because thats just not fair when we look at what the GP world has done for Alvaro and Loris. The uproar is about favoritism, and that is a really unjust argument. The Powers-That-Be are simply "allowing" things to occur that will improve/maintain the health of the Show.

The MSMA cut Suzuki some slack and IMO they are doing the same for Ducati.

Lets not forget too, that Ducati have NOT ignored a rule. Testing days for 2012 bikes are still limited and they are consuming theirs. There is no promise that this strategy will payoff for them in the long run.

Hmm, I didn't know Suzuki is still allowed to have more engines. If this is the case, makes me see your point.
But I don't see the situation created by Ducati more favorable, just the one created for Suzuki more suspect.