Stoner interview

[ipso]

…I remember seeing at the last round when the bikes came into to parc ferme, I think both Repsol bikes had those "stomp pads" as you call them ipso. I don't remember seeing them previously on any motogp bikes.

I looked at the Mugello park ferme and couldn’t find anything, but maybe I’m confusing the bits.

Occasionally there is padding on the front of the tail cowl (easy to see), and occasionally on the back of the tank (not so easy to see.) Here is one though (gray.) I’ll call it a ‘tank-nub’, for lack of a better term.




This one below looks to be a better formed black tank-nub (preseason, pre-paint). You can also see the “stomp-pad” clear rubber grip tape on the side of the tank. (‘Stomp-Pad is just one brand [that one actually], taking its name from the snowboarding accessory.)



So I guess it’s just obvious to everyone else, but it struck me that Stoner was using his pelvis almost exclusively (rubber tank-nub or not.) Perhaps the whole notion that upper body strength is needed for the otherworldly carbon fiber brake G-force is actually not that bad – people like me just projecting how hard it is on our street bikes (wrists) but is actually a bunch of people with stock tanks that thus are not able to use there pelvis. I’ve never seen custom tanks or extenders at trackdays, but then I’ve never looked. Maybe I just never noticed them.

Here looks to be a stealth tank-nub – or whatever it’s called.


Here looks to be none at all, and very similar to what both Stoner and Dovi seemed to have for Mugello. I guess the tank covers are just extended or shortened to custom fit the rider (vs. padding.)

[Richo]

Here is the pic I am talking about. This is a screen capture of Parc Ferme at Mugello. You can see Stoner has the tank grips and Dovi appears to have them as well.

[ipso]

Nice catch on the stomp-pads.

Also, the other bit is called a "tank extender".
(Sorry – only for those with a subscription. Ben shows his stealthy one on the Yamaha.)

[Oscar]

You can see Stoner has the tank grips and Dovi appears to have them as well.

Great pic. - Dovi's tank looks about 50mm longer than Stoners - and since Stoner is (according to motoGp.com) 6 cm taller and 4 kgs heavier than Dovi, Stoner must surely put a heap more weight on the front end. No wonder he talks about heavier front springs.. set-up would have to be very different to Dovi's.

[Richo]

Good pick up Oscar, Dovi's tanks is definitely longer. All these little things add up to a riders preferred setup.

[drayon]

Stoner had this tank grip on his Ducati's. It was the first thing his crew installed on the Honda when they arrived at HRC. This was mentioned and talked about both when Stoner was at Ducati and the first day he arrived at Honda. Pictures are out there of this.

[chc-pr]

I think people are glad to see the end of the 800's, not necessarily because they believe the 1000's will be completely different, but for the simple fact (EDIT: or at least the general concensus of almost everyone I know) that the 800's have been pretty dire in terms of entertainment.

It's just the end of an era and whether or not it does make a massive change or not, it gives people hope that it will be better.

To say things get closer if things are left alone in my opinion is incorrect... this is the 6th year of the 800's and the field is more spread out than it ever has been and even more the results are based on what bike is under your backside.

I understand that, but history suggests that changing rules REDUCES overall competitiveness while everyone finds the new optimal compromises. Further, no reason CRT couldn't be overlaid onto the existing rules anyway IMO, so I can't actually see any gain at all.

[Sloth27]

You could give them 23lts of fuel and 1000cc but if the top riders never make a mistake or stray off line then it won't "improve" the racing. The only way it can improve is to remove the control tyre so you simply can't be good enough to ride 20 odd laps without making a mistake. The tyres are so consistent throughout the race distance that it makes it easier to lock in a competitive lap time and then just keep replicating it all weekend. Lorenzo does it better than anyone.

[Domino]

You could give them 23lts of fuel and 1000cc but if the top riders never make a mistake or stray off line then it won't "improve" the racing. The only way it can improve is to remove the control tyre so you simply can't be good enough to ride 20 odd laps without making a mistake. The tyres are so consistent throughout the race distance that it makes it easier to lock in a competitive lap time and then just keep replicating it all weekend. Lorenzo does it better than anyone.

Actually removing the control tire would probably go further towards improving the racing than removing the fuel limit. I'm not convinced necessarily for the reason you stated, but if you consider for bikes like the Ducati where I believe the biggest hurdle is not the chassis (or any of the other perpetual banter) but rather the tires underneath it and their inability to make them work. If you bring back the prototype tires, teams like Ducati and Suzuki are all of a sudden able to get tires that match their chassis (instead of trying to make their chassis match the rest of the Japanese chassis) and it elevates more players to the front.

[Squidpuppet]

[
. A liter of fuel will not suddenly make the Suzuki competitive nor will it put Elias on the box.

True. But without fuel issues the guys wouldnt need to be inch perfect every lap and we could watch some overtaking.

Sure, but that overtaking would be in the back of the field because the "inch perfect" guys would still be leading the field.

Depends on the increase in grunt. Inch perfect is the best way to set fastest laps, but not the best way to pass. Nicky has already commented about extra grunt allowing you to vary your lines and *put some moves on the guys*.

[Squidpuppet]

Here looks to be none at all, and very similar to what both Stoner and Dovi seemed to have for Mugello. I guess the tank covers are just extended or shortened to custom fit the rider (vs. padding.)

Here, Ben shows and comments (no big deal) on his tank "extension" vs Jorges. It's blue and you would never notice them unless you looked for them. It just looks like a longer tank. I am assuming these guys must wear athletic cups if they are using their crotch to preserve arm and shoulder strength.

Gotta have a subscription, sorry.

http://www.motogp.com/en/videos/2011/Be ... ha+YZRM1+1

Edit: I see you found the Ben video.

[Domino]

Depends on the increase in grunt. Inch perfect is the best way to set fastest laps, but not the best way to pass. Nicky has already commented about extra grunt allowing you to vary your lines and *put some moves on the guys*.

Yes, but you have to get close enough for a pass first and if the guy in front of you is inch perfect on corner entry, you aren't ever going to get close enough to make that pass attempt. That is the problem now everyone is too perfect and it is very difficult to make a pass, you aren't suddenly going to start making passes by being anything less than perfect.

[Squidpuppet]

Depends on the increase in grunt. Inch perfect is the best way to set fastest laps, but not the best way to pass. Nicky has already commented about extra grunt allowing you to vary your lines and *put some moves on the guys*.

Yes, but you have to get close enough for a pass first and if the guy in front of you is inch perfect on corner entry, you aren't ever going to get close enough to make that pass attempt. That is the problem now everyone is too perfect and it is very difficult to make a pass, you aren't suddenly going to start making passes by being anything less than perfect.

They'll have to be perfect in order to arrive at a potential passing position, but once they are there, "ugly and creative" can get the pass made, then resume perfect mode until the "passed" rider returns the favor. My hope is that there may be more frequent attempts. If there is sufficient grunt available the guys may be less apprehensive about making an attempt for fear of having it fail. The way it is now, its too hard to make up for any loss of momentum. It'll probably be pretty obvious in the very first race which way its all going to play out. Especially with the unchanged fuel load.

[Domino]

Depends on the increase in grunt. Inch perfect is the best way to set fastest laps, but not the best way to pass. Nicky has already commented about extra grunt allowing you to vary your lines and *put some moves on the guys*.

Yes, but you have to get close enough for a pass first and if the guy in front of you is inch perfect on corner entry, you aren't ever going to get close enough to make that pass attempt. That is the problem now everyone is too perfect and it is very difficult to make a pass, you aren't suddenly going to start making passes by being anything less than perfect.

They'll have to be perfect in order to arrive at a potential passing position, but once they are there, "ugly and creative" can get the pass made, then resume perfect mode until the "passed" rider returns the favor. My hope is that there may be more frequent attempts. If there is sufficient grunt available the guys may be less apprehensive about making an attempt for fear of having it fail. The way it is now, its too hard to make up for any loss of momentum. It'll probably be pretty obvious in the very first race which way its all going to play out. Especially with the unchanged fuel load.

I pretty much expect to see throatier 800cc bikes in 2012, everything else will probably much as it is now...

[chc-pr]

They'll have to be perfect in order to arrive at a potential passing position, but once they are there, "ugly and creative" can get the pass made, then resume perfect mode until the "passed" rider returns the favor. My hope is that there may be more frequent attempts. If there is sufficient grunt available the guys may be less apprehensive about making an attempt for fear of having it fail. The way it is now, its too hard to make up for any loss of momentum. It'll probably be pretty obvious in the very first race which way its all going to play out. Especially with the unchanged fuel load.

Which bit of that do you think does not apply right now? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious because it seems to me that is exactly the same as now.

[Squidpuppet]

They'll have to be perfect in order to arrive at a potential passing position, but once they are there, "ugly and creative" can get the pass made, then resume perfect mode until the "passed" rider returns the favor. My hope is that there may be more frequent attempts. If there is sufficient grunt available the guys may be less apprehensive about making an attempt for fear of having it fail. The way it is now, its too hard to make up for any loss of momentum. It'll probably be pretty obvious in the very first race which way its all going to play out. Especially with the unchanged fuel load.

Which bit of that do you think does not apply right now? I am not trying to be argumentative, I am genuinely curious because it seems to me that is exactly the same as now.

If there is sufficient grunt available the guys may be less apprehensive about making an attempt for fear of having it fail. The way it is now, its too hard to make up for any loss of momentum.

The frequency of attempts because the consequences are too great.

There is no GRUNT available right now. The 800s state of tune is making most of their power up top. They cant afford to make a mistake because it takes forever to make up lost ground. Its all about keeping the momentum right now. With the 990s, (and 500s) if a rider failed while attempting to pass, (but the attempt caused both riders to alter line or acceleration points) there was enough torque on tap to reel the lead rider back in quickly.

[Squidpuppet]

]

I pretty much expect to see throatier 800cc bikes in 2012, everything else will probably much as it is now...

With the increased stroke I am hoping for a little more Oomph off the corners and flexibility. Of course the fuel limit could kill the potential for that though.

[CIN]

The main problem right now IMO are the tires and the electronics. If the tires were designed to get up to temp immediately and after half a race they go off and slide predictably, we would see many more mistakes and passing opportunities even with the 800cc engines. The other thing that would help is to reduce the level of electronic intervention so that the tires can spin more. This would help with the show immensely because even in the case the riders are spread out, the view would be able to see some sliding which in itself is a "show enhancer"

Other side effects of the above would be that the 800cc engines would have to be designed to be less peaky and with a more user friendly torque curve and the fuel limitations would suddenly not necessarily penalise as much the heavy riders because corner exits would never be as perfect as they are now especially after the tires go off.

[Squidpuppet]

The main problem right now IMO are the tires and the electronics. If the tires were designed to get up to temp immediately and after half a race they go off and slide predictably, we would see many more mistakes and passing opportunities even with the 800cc engines. The other thing that would help is to reduce the level of electronic intervention so that the tires can spin more. This would help with the show immensely because even in the case the riders are spread out, the view would be able to see some sliding which in itself is a "show enhancer"

Other side effects of the above would be that the 800cc engines would have to be designed to be less peaky and with a more user friendly torque curve and the fuel limitations would suddenly not necessarily penalise as much the heavy riders because corner exits would never be as perfect as they are now especially after the tires go off.

We can olny dream...

[Domino]

]

I pretty much expect to see throatier 800cc bikes in 2012, everything else will probably much as it is now...

With the increased stroke I am hoping for a little more Oomph off the corners and flexibility. Of course the fuel limit could kill the potential for that though.

Well here is something to think about: you take all the bikes on the grid now and you increased their torque the same amount what happens? You have the exact same bikes on the grid because their improvements negate each other. That is why things will not really change, we aren't talking 125s here where you have to wind them up and keep the momentum up, the 800s do have quite a bit of torque the problem is that when everyone is doing everything right when you make a mistake it REALLY costs you and no amount of torque is going to fix that.

[Squidpuppet]

]

I pretty much expect to see throatier 800cc bikes in 2012, everything else will probably much as it is now...

With the increased stroke I am hoping for a little more Oomph off the corners and flexibility. Of course the fuel limit could kill the potential for that though.

Well here is something to think about: you take all the bikes on the grid now and you increased their torque the same amount what happens? You have the exact same bikes on the grid because their improvements negate each other. That is why things will not really change, we aren't talking 125s here where you have to wind them up and keep the momentum up, the 800s do have quite a bit of torque the problem is that when everyone is doing everything right when you make a mistake it REALLY costs you and no amount of torque is going to fix that.

Flexibility + Line variance = more than one way to achieve the same result (fast lap). I know a lot of folks, perhaps even most, believe that there is always and only ONE fastest line around a track. I am not one of them.

Limited torque limits techniques and styles. Squaring off and attacking is a lost art without it.

[JanBros]

Limited torque limits techniques and styles. Squaring off and attacking is a lost art without it.

the same level off fuel with even more horsepower will mean everything stays the same.
no rear spinning, as that costs fuel without going faster.
squaring off and attacking means you have to pick up speed from a lower startingpoint and that costs fuel - they don't have. so they will keep the same lines as 800's.

[Oscar]

no rear spinning, as that costs fuel without going faster.

We've seen that with the Honda Stoner is doing quite a lot of fairly subtle rear-wheel steering by spinning it up, and most of the other guys must be doing somewhat similar - those black lines on the track don't all come from Stoner. More torque with the same level of traction means the ability to spin up at lower revs, effectively negating the larger displacement in terms of fuel use - but there's bugger-all likelihood of a return to the real point-and-squirt days. The difference between the 'theoretically perfect line' i.e. taking the maximum radius line for a given corner taking into account best entry and exit position on track vs. the 'practically fastest' line that Stoner talks about isn't usually vast - IIRC, last year at Aragon Hayden revealed that the Ducati simulator had predicted a lap time that was just about spot-on with Stoner's achieved lap times.

[Domino]

Flexibility + Line variance = more than one way to achieve the same result (fast lap). I know a lot of folks, perhaps even most, believe that there is always and only ONE fastest line around a track. I am not one of them.

Limited torque limits techniques and styles. Squaring off and attacking is a lost art without it.

It is not a lost art, it is an abandoned technique because it is slow and inefficient. There are plenty of guys on the grid that can back a bike in, square off a corner etc, the problem is that it is slow. What is today's reality is that a high corner speed, high exit speed is fast and that comes as a result of all of the technology, the extreme precision of the riders and the overall quality of the field.

[WayneG]

Talking about inch perfect... Casey Stoner at 1000 frames/sec.
http://www.redbullusa.com/cs/Satellite/en_US/Video/moments-casey-stoner-moto-gp-021243047212056