2012 Sepang Test 1

[Rusty Bucket USA]

Once again I fear I have not made myself clear. Stoner's lap was impressive in terms of pace and in isolation. However, as Lorenzo said, Casey did that in cooler morning conditions, whereas Jorge's was done in the middle of the day which I think is very impressive...

...And Stoner still suffering from serious pain in his back.

That helmet Rossi is wearing got my attention. Will he wear that from now on?

[Nachlauf]

Give it time, don't lose faith and do your homework and eventually it will pay off. Taking the shortcut wouldn't help them much anyways now. With an aftermarket system they'd still be several seconds off.

This makes sense for the WSBK effort but not for the CRT. It is going to be hard enough to be competitive, adding a known uncompetitive system at the heart of your bike is forcing failure. The MM system at least has known potential for running at the front. With that you can focus on the rest of the bike.

I disagree. No CRT is expected to get everything right anytime soon. Until then I wouldn't be surprised if the balance between them changed often. When we first see ART and Forward at the same test I expect them to achieve rather similar times.

[Cam D]

Speculation is that Barbera was getting a tow as his times are a serious anomaly and indeed throw into question Ducati's actual progress. I think if anyone believed his times were legitimate, the reactions from the Ducati garage would have been a lot less positive.

Uccio, communicating via twitter, accused the Spaniard of tagging along behind Rossi to record his best time, something Barbera has been known to do in the past. The Pramac rider quickly dismissed the accusation, though: "I never lapped together with Valentino, and my best time was set alone. The timesheets show this to be the truth; Rossi had just exited the pits and he was going very slowly when I passed him, because I was pushing for a good lap."

&

Hector was even pleased with his new team: "I really like the atmosphere in the garage. They are a young team, but already with considerable experience. I still don't know when I'll get the GP12, but for now we'll continue working with this bike, even if we're already close to the limit of adjustability."

[RatsMC]

This makes sense for the WSBK effort but not for the CRT. It is going to be hard enough to be competitive, adding a known uncompetitive system at the heart of your bike is forcing failure. The MM system at least has known potential for running at the front. With that you can focus on the rest of the bike.

I disagree. No CRT is expected to get everything right anytime soon. Until then I wouldn't be surprised if the balance between them changed often. When we first see ART and Forward at the same test I expect them to achieve rather similar times.

What I am saying though is that they have a system that they have no idea whether it will ever be successful and they are banking the project on it.

Speculation is that Barbera was getting a tow as his times are a serious anomaly and indeed throw into question Ducati's actual progress. I think if anyone believed his times were legitimate, the reactions from the Ducati garage would have been a lot less positive.

Uccio, communicating via twitter, accused the Spaniard of tagging along behind Rossi to record his best time, something Barbera has been known to do in the past. The Pramac rider quickly dismissed the accusation, though: "I never lapped together with Valentino, and my best time was set alone. The timesheets show this to be the truth; Rossi had just exited the pits and he was going very slowly when I passed him, because I was pushing for a good lap."

&

Hector was even pleased with his new team: "I really like the atmosphere in the garage. They are a young team, but already with considerable experience. I still don't know when I'll get the GP12, but for now we'll continue working with this bike, even if we're already close to the limit of adjustability."

If you look at the numbers I posted, it doesn't really line up with what Barbera is saying.

[Cam D]

If you look at the numbers I posted, it doesn't really line up with what Barbera is saying.

The only thing left is he must be lying then...

[RatsMC]

Well really, who would want to be known as someone who is only fast with a tow?

[Zaphod]

Meh.........testing is testing.

We'll only really find out when the flag drops. The only statements worth taking out of all of the banter ( for me) is that Barbera has said "even if it is near the end of it's adjustability", and Rossi saying " the bike is much more adjustable".

From memory, Rossi's test times the first year with the M1 didn't show much promise.......not saying a repeat is on the cards, but the GP 12 might be better than it currently appears.

Emphasis on the "might".........

We'll have to wait.

[Nachlauf]

This makes sense for the WSBK effort but not for the CRT. It is going to be hard enough to be competitive, adding a known uncompetitive system at the heart of your bike is forcing failure. The MM system at least has known potential for running at the front. With that you can focus on the rest of the bike.

I disagree. No CRT is expected to get everything right anytime soon. Until then I wouldn't be surprised if the balance between them changed often. When we first see ART and Forward at the same test I expect them to achieve rather similar times.

What I am saying though is that they have a system that they have no idea whether it will ever be successful and they are banking the project on it.

No they are not. Electronics are not the basics of a motorcycle racing team. And it's not like the Bosch system doesn't work at all. You can never be sure if your plans work out. But if my guesses are right than they basically have BMW paying for the development and management of the electronics while they can spend their budget on developing suspensions and stuff.

[Oscar]

Well really, who would want to be known as someone who is only fast with a tow?

Barbera managed to be a nuisance to Rossi on a few occasions last year - not consistently, but sometimes he strung some good laps together, got past and held it for a while before making a mistake. I think he's capable of getting a quick lap now and then without a tow, though he certainly has the reputation. The fact that there may well be more adjustability in the new new GP12 doesn't automatically mean it can get significantly faster, it may simply mean it has more chance of being reasonably competitive across a broader range of tracks. 0.6 off Lorenzo still means finishing 12 - 15 seconds behind...or to put it another way, 3 secs back by lap 5, which is way, way too far to allow any superior racecraft to come into play. Lorenzo is into the groove nowadays by the first corner..

[Cam D]

As for Barbera getting a tow ... he said the timing proved that Rossi was coming out of the pits, pretty hard to argue with facts.

[DJH]

Lorenzo is into the groove nowadays by the first corner..

That first corner & lap action gets me excited for this season to be under way already.

Yes we see processions much of the time, but that opening lap where it's a coin flip where Lorenzo, Stoner, Pedrosa and the occasional extra opt-in is at the end of the straight is always great to watch.

[Tourn46]

As for Barbera getting a tow ... he said the timing proved that Rossi was coming out of the pits, pretty hard to argue with facts.

Maybe his tow was from someone else then...

It seems like a bit of an anomaly when looking at Rats post.

[Zaphod]

Maybe Barbera just went to WOT, shut his eye's and held his breath for one lap.

I hope Rossi, Hayden and team Duck are foxing a bit ( yeah......I know !), and that Lorenzo and Spies really do have something to take it to Stoner with.

.........No, I don't see Dani doing any more than he has in seasons past. There....... I said it.


Be good if Bautista got the Honda to work for him.

[sir_nj]

Maybe Barbera just went to WOT, shut his eye's and held his breath for one lap.

quite possibly

I hope Rossi, Hayden and team Duck are foxing a bit ( yeah......I know !)

those days are gone, but I do think Rossi races better than he practices so on the second grid with a bike he likes is a dangerous Rossi. He still has time to make quite a bit of improvement and given he and Burgess will likely understand the adjustments they can make with this bike then I think there will be improvement.

Lorenzo and Spies really do have something to take it to Stoner with.

Lorenzo yes, Spies hmmm, still not sure. I still think he is closer to the aliens than anyone else this year but last year it was Super sic who really looked like making that kind of step up. Spies seems to be close to as fast as he can go, if that's the case then unfortunately then it's not going to be fast enough. Having said that he is a learner.

.........No, I don't see Dani doing any more than he has in seasons past. There....... I said it.

history says you are right though and I was surprised that Dani came away saying he needed to bulk up. Dani what have you been doing for the last few months? The extra weight of the thous may not be the issue in the end but the other two aliens just seem a little more resilent and if Rossi gets his bike to be competitive by the second half of the season then it just looks like three against 1 unless Dani gets away at the front. Would be good for Dani to have an injury free season for once.

Be good if Bautista got the Honda to work for him.

la la land I'm afraid, got a long long way to go to be with the top boys. I'm looking for Spies to step it up occassionally but no one else at this stage unless the two sat Yamahas decide to prove me wrong.

[Zaphod]

True on all counts.

Now, re Pedrobot and the "bulking up".......... My memory ( which has been know to fail me on a regular basis.....) with the sticking out leg thingy on entry, .....I seem to recall the first time I ever saw it in the premier class was when Peddy started doing it during his first year on the big bikes........was it Le Mans ?....going into a hairpin/tight left hander.

As he had just stepped up from the 250's, and would (size wise) be able to get a role as an Oompa-Loompa in Wily Wonka's chocolate factory, I ( at the time ) thought it was down to him not being able to keep himself on the bike under such heavy braking.

It looked at the time like his foot was slipping off the peg, rather than a well thought out placement of his leg.

I did note however, that he was quicker into that turn than Rossi, who then seemed to tentativley try what Pedrobot was doing.

With the 800's, PedroPuig seemed to be (was) putting the leg out on purpose, but part of me still thinks that with the bigger bike, it looked somewhat of an accidental/un-intentional occurance.

I have seen no video of the test, but from the still pictures he looks as in control as anyone. Will be interesting (?) to see how he goes, stamina/strength wise with the 1000 during a race. In saying that, even if he does ride it as well as he has been riding the 800, he seems to be destined to finish 2nd/3rd in the championship...........going on his history of winning, then hurting himself.

Best of luck to him.......I hope I'm wrong (usually am !)......but going by numbers.........

I think, like you, Spies is the best bet to step up.........but, by the same token, this would appear to be the year he has to..........lest he be jousting for RDP's/Barbera's seat for next year

[WayneG]

I put this up just for fun and interest. Nothing implied, no conclusions, no deep and meaningful insights. I'm just having fun and trying to learn Corel Paintshop Photo.
After mocking up the Rossi/Stoner comparison (in the Ducati thread), I thought it would be interesting to compare Stoner on the Ducati against Stoner on the Honda.
Again it is turn 4 at Sepang at approximately the same position (within a metre or so). Apart from cropping the background the only adjustment made is that the Honda photo was proportionally enlarged by about 10% to match sizes. Same rider, two different bikes, two years apart. Spot the difference (if you can).

[RatsMC]

As for Barbera getting a tow ... he said the timing proved that Rossi was coming out of the pits, pretty hard to argue with facts.

So, he didn't get a tow from Rossi. Was anyone but Uccio claiming that Rossi was the only one giving him the tow?

[RatsMC]

No they are not. Electronics are not the basics of a motorcycle racing team. And it's not like the Bosch system doesn't work at all. You can never be sure if your plans work out. But if my guesses are right than they basically have BMW paying for the development and management of the electronics while they can spend their budget on developing suspensions and stuff.

Listen, I'm not bashing BMWs WSBK effort but the truth is, what is holding that bike back is entirely the electronics. Nothing else is wrong with it and the bike is winning at all levels of racing - right up the the series where Marelli ECUs are used where they are getting killed.

The Electronics aren't the entire bike but at this level, you cannot get within 4-5 seconds of the pace with sub-par systems. Look at Suzuki, they couldn't make an extremely powerful bike work because they were trying to use Mistubishi equipment.

Personally, I would love to see another supplier out there but in its current state the Bosch system isn't up to the task. Edwards will almost certainly help them get it a lot closer but the team is going be running around barely qualifying in the beginning.

[Oscar]

Same rider, two different bikes, two years apart. Spot the difference (if you can).

Lad is stuck in a groove. He's never going to get anywhere if he can't adapt...

Far be it from me to suggest that what we have here is evidence that the laws of physics don't change from machine to machine, so I won't. Not a word will pass my fingertips, my keyboard remains obstinately mute, electrons sit idly waiting for a change of state. Somewhere out there in the dark night, a cricket plaintively chirps, unanswered.

[tom]

To me Oscar, those pics prove that the laws of physics are indeed different for the Ducati. Identical lean angle and hanging off yet I bet the Hondas mid corner speed in 2012 is higher than Ducati in 2010! How can it be?

[Cam D]

As for Barbera getting a tow ... he said the timing proved that Rossi was coming out of the pits, pretty hard to argue with facts.

So, he didn't get a tow from Rossi. Was anyone but Uccio claiming that Rossi was the only one giving him the tow?

Barbera said - "I never lapped together with Valentino, and my best time was set alone".

[RatsMC]

It sort of feels like you are looking for me to say outright that he is lying. I don't have absolute facts in front of me so it's a bit of a stretch to make such an accusation. However, a rider picking up over 1 second for four random laps spread throughout the day is more than unusual. In fact, I've never seen just a disparity in any proctice session.

[Cam D]

It sort of feels like you are looking for me to say outright that he is lying. I don't have absolute facts in front of me so it's a bit of a stretch to make such an accusation. However, a rider picking up over 1 second for four random laps spread throughout the day is more than unusual. In fact, I've never seen just a disparity in any proctice session.

I'm not a fan of Barbera style of racing, I just don't understand how you can assume he was getting tow when you have no evidence of him actually doing that, bar some un- proven off hand comments via tweets. Barbera was faster on the second day and pretty much equal on the other two, and said he was enjoying riding the bike... so he was reasonably quick. To me, it's like assuming Casey received a tow to get a random .5 faster than his other laps. I don't think it's out of the question for the riders to throw in random fast laps during shake down testing. I think the thing to take from this is that on the timing sheets - so far - the new Duke hasn't shown a huge difference, but as I said the next few sessions will show how it can develop compared to the modified version of last years bike that Barbera is riding.

[RatsMC]

To be clear, I didn't take anything from some random tweets, I looked at the lap times and they simply don't make sense. Stoner's single fast lap is an anomaly but it isn't a full second faster than his average time nor his regular fast laps. 1 second is huge. Stoner also did his fast lap first thing in the morning when things were cooler. Barbera's times were spread out throughout the day.

[Zaphod]

Spot the difference (if you can).

Footpegs seem higher on the honda........... but take into account staring at the overlays has made me feel slightly drunk.......