Stoner VS Rossi, the never ending debate

[Rossifumi]

Favourite Rider Poll

Seems appropriate for this topic... Stoner did better than expected

surprised to see Pedrosa ahead of Lorenzo, and by quite a distance

[eddahenry]

Favourite Rider Poll

Seems appropriate for this topic... Stoner did better than expected

surprised to see Pedrosa ahead of Lorenzo, and by quite a distance

Dint surprise me much at all
we all know VR has the most fans in MOTOGP buy a country mile , And seeing Lorenzo and Stoner have taken championships from Rossi and danni hasn't it makes alot of scene to me.

[RatsMC]

Dint surprise me much at all
we all know VR has the most fans in MOTOGP buy a country mile , And seeing Lorenzo and Stoner have taken championships from Rossi and danni hasn't it makes alot of scene to me.

Wait, you are saying that because Pedrosa doesn't have a title he is more popular? That doesn't make sense to me.

[chc-pr]

Dint surprise me much at all
we all know VR has the most fans in MOTOGP buy a country mile , And seeing Lorenzo and Stoner have taken championships from Rossi and danni hasn't it makes alot of scene to me.

Wait, you are saying that because Pedrosa doesn't have a title he is more popular? That doesn't make sense to me.

Seriously? You don't think the vitriole that Rossi's fan base pours on anyone who beats their idol has an impact? Honestly, I am genuinely surprised that you find it surprising. You need to visit places away from here, because this place is by no means even close to what happens elsewhere. Rossi's fans (as a generalisation) are, frankly, visceral (with due apologies to Rossi's supporters on here who are not representative of most of what I have seen).

[RatsMC]

I understand that but it doesn't seem to me that a Rossi fan is going to vote for anyone but Rossi and someone who doesn't like Rossi is most likely to vote for someone who has beaten him.

[tom]

I understand that but it doesn't seem to me that a Rossi fan is going to vote for anyone but Rossi and someone who doesn't like Rossi is most likely to vote for someone who has beaten him.

Lorenzo and Stoner were subject to enormous negative commentary from both the 'professional' commentators and from a large proportion of the large Rossi supporter base. Danny hasn't been subject to this for a long, long time (since the Nicky incident) and even then it was relatively short lived. I think it would be reasonable to conclude that if Danny was fighting against Rossi for the championship the cross hairs would firmly get fixed on him and his popularity drop accordingly.

But then again I'm a big Casey fan and while the logic seems perfectly reasonable to me, I'm sure many would think its a load of crock

Edit: To address your point Rats, the commentary effects people that would/do not vote for Rossi. Both Lorenzo and Stoner were Dark forces to Rossi's Shining light, in the popular narrative.

[RatsMC]

I guess it might be easier to understand if I (or we) were more familiar with how the Spanish media has treated Lorenzo since the poll is directed at Spanish fans.

[Faster1]

,, I think VR would be just as popular if he had half the wins and half the championships. His popularity (especially now) has almost as much to do with his personality and style as it does his speed/wins/ability. He also has more "non-race" fans than any other and as such, he has exposed more 'new" people to gp than any 1 rider.
You can say that Stoner (like most) are void of this personable personality, so the appeal is mostly by races fans appreciation for his speed/wins/ability as well as his countryman. Lorenzo, has been accused of trying to out Rossi, - Rossi, in the "showmanship" department, so that's instant hate.
With Dani, it's equally hard to find something to dislike about his personality as it is to find something to like. He's hasn't been very opinionated during his career, nor has he thrown a punch at Randy DePunet. And I think that there are more and more people pulling for Dani as he seems to have had more bad luck every year than most.

[Tourn46]

And I think that there are more and more people pulling for Dani as he seems to have had more bad luck every year than most.

I agree with this and to an extent I am one of these people... he's a very talented boy and I still don't think we've seen the best of him in MotoGP... but it remains to be seen if we ever will.

[Squidpuppet]

,, And I think that there are more and more people pulling for Dani as he seems to have had more bad luck every year than most.

Yep, the Underdog factor.

[Wineman]

Thank you Motomania and Desmo44 for the kind words, even if in jest. A 196-203 lbs rider on a 500 2stroke combined with the design of European tracks has "no chance" whatsoever. Weight is not just about horsepower/moto acceleration, but also about tire adhesion/longevity and extreme braking forces. Add 30lbs to Stoner (A phenomenal talent) then the real race is on.

[DJH]

Lorenzo, has been accused of trying to out Rossi, - Rossi, in the "showmanship" department, so that's instant hate.

I initially thought that as well, but it looks like he simply had most people fooled. His antics not only got him underneath Rossi's skin, and by doing so helped him win it all in 2010 and ultimately win the battle with Yamaha's chequebook.

After his sportsmanship last year, I have come to like Lorenzo. That and a chat I had this time last year with a Spanish Lorenzo fan at the Bolonga factory. He put a different spin on things for me.

[RatsMC]

Thank you Motomania and Desmo44 for the kind words, even if in jest. A 196-203 lbs rider on a 500 2stroke combined with the design of European tracks has "no chance" whatsoever. Weight is not just about horsepower/moto acceleration, but also about tire adhesion/longevity and extreme braking forces. Add 30lbs to Stoner (A phenomenal talent) then the real race is on.

Scott Gray?

[chc-pr]

I don't know if this is a UK thing, but why do VR fans seem to feel the need to plast '46' logos on everything? I haven't seen the same for anyone else. Just for clarity, this is not a dig - its just I had someone pull infront of me today and his car had a '46' logo on the back. I keep seeing this. Its on bikes, shirts, just about everything. Why?

[Faster1]

nope, not a UK thing,, I have a small VR sun/moon decal on the front of my center rear view mirror

[Tourn46]

I don't know if this is a UK thing, but why do VR fans seem to feel the need to plast '46' logos on everything? I haven't seen the same for anyone else. Just for clarity, this is not a dig - its just I had someone pull infront of me today and his car had a '46' logo on the back. I keep seeing this. Its on bikes, shirts, just about everything. Why?

It's the same up here in Aberdeen, if you see a sportsbike it will almost certainly have a '46' or 'The Doctor' on it somewhere, along with numerous vans and cars that I see almost daily. Usually a Rossi replica helmet too.

You keep seeing it because he's such a popular sportsman... I don't think it's that VR fans do it, it's that there's just so many more of them, it's going to be noticable.
I've never met a Stoner fan in real life, and that's the God's honest truth. I know a couple of folk who are well behind Cruthclow because he's British, but apart from that it's very much a VR hotspot in the UK for sure.

Did you see my post about the Pedrosa 26 sticker I saw once that turned out to belong to a woman who must have been about 70?

[DJH]

[
It's the same up here in Aberdeen, if you see a sportsbike it will almost certainly have a '46' or 'The Doctor' on it somewhere, along with numerous vans and cars that I see almost daily. Usually a Rossi replica helmet too.

It's called a bandwagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts (and hopefully you're old enough to have enjoyed it when it actually started).

A rider doesn't need fans, he just needs to go fast. Stoner is #1 at the moment, that speaks volumes more than any marketing campaign ever will.

As for the personal attacks on his character, his lifestyle and his reaction to the media etc - if you understood his upbringing, his family, and how hard he has worked to get in the position he is today (he was never 'gifted' with bikes & parts) you might begin to understand his critical nature. He has no interest in the media, he just wants to race.

As for the Stoner's as people - you won't meet a nicer family. I've been privileged enough to be in the Ducati garage during the 2010 PI win, and the HRC garage in 2011 standing alongside the family, Mick Doohan, Wayne Gardener.. the works. Our friendship was forged when they got my cancer-ridden uncle box seat in the VIP booth a few months before he kicked the bucket. It was no make-a-wish bullshit either, but simply casual conversation about it and next minute Casey's mum is on the phone making moves. They've been friends of my wife and I ever since.

That's why I get a bit offended when people attack Casey's character when they know absolutely nothing about the kid. He just likes to go fast and compete. He doesn't buy into Rossi's media bullshit and neither do a lot of people. There is no crime in that. Rossi has brought people into the sport and made it popular.. but most of those fans are bandwagoners. They are there to see the Rossi spectacle, not real racing fans at all. They will pack up and leave as his career winds down.. hell, it's already happening. You won't catch many of them on a board like this either. All this technical bullshit.. surely that's not what it's all about. It's about post race celebrations and the theatre. Right?

Attack Casey's racing statistics all you want (good luck with that one too), but please don't crap on about his character or who he is.. because you seriously have NFI. Aussies relate to him much better because a lot of our sporting heroes are just like him.

Professional, and only worried about competing. Not trying to sell T-shirts.

[Cam D]

Thanks for sharing the story about your uncle DJH. It's nice to hear about the human side of racing.

[Tourn46]

[
It's the same up here in Aberdeen, if you see a sportsbike it will almost certainly have a '46' or 'The Doctor' on it somewhere, along with numerous vans and cars that I see almost daily. Usually a Rossi replica helmet too.

It's called a bandwagon. Enjoy the ride while it lasts (and hopefully you're old enough to have enjoyed it when it actually started).

A rider doesn't need fans, he just needs to go fast. Stoner is #1 at the moment, that speaks volumes more than any marketing campaign ever will.

That's a really nice story regarding what the Stoner family did for your uncle, thanks for sharing.

I agree with you, fans don't make a rider... but it begs the question, why hasn't there ever been a Stoner bandwagon? Surely it takes someone special, someone like Rossi, to create this?

It seems to be overlooked, but Rossi is just a run of the mill rider who has a big personality... he has won an incredible amount in his career and it's pretty damn unlikley that anyone on the MotoGP grid will come close to winning as much as he has. Like it or not, the bandwagon has serious substance as to why it existed in the first place.

And yes, I'm 26 and I've watched MotoGP for as long as I can remember, I've been fortunate enough to follow by far the greatest rider I've ever seen his whole career.

[JanBros]

it's pretty damn unlikley that anyone on the MotoGP grid will come close to winning as much as he has.

if Stoner stays long enough, I believe we are already witnissing just that

[Squidpuppet]

but it begs the question, why hasn't there ever been a Stoner bandwagon? Surely it takes someone special, someone like Rossi, to create this?.

I think you may have missed the point. Bandwagon isnt exactly meant as a compliment.

[Tourn46]

but it begs the question, why hasn't there ever been a Stoner bandwagon? Surely it takes someone special, someone like Rossi, to create this?.

I think you may have missed the point. Bandwagon isnt exactly meant as a compliment.

I know that... I am simply saying that generally, the bandwagon is 'glory supporters'... even when Stoner is winning, he doesn't get this.

[Nachlauf]

but it begs the question, why hasn't there ever been a Stoner bandwagon? Surely it takes someone special, someone like Rossi, to create this?.

I think you may have missed the point. Bandwagon isnt exactly meant as a compliment.

I know that... I am simply saying that generally, the bandwagon is 'glory supporters'... even when Stoner is winning, he doesn't get this.

Well, unlike Rossi the Aussie is not on a self-promoting mission. He doesn't like to talk to most of the journalists. And because of that many of them dont like him. Results in much bad press as witnessed over the years. And as bandwagoners generally are dumbwits it's no wonder they cling to Rossi mostly. This wont change until he quits I suppose. It's the same reason why Bayern Munich has the most fans in Germany. But unfortunately they are unlikely to ever quit.

[JanBros]

It's the same reason why Bayern Munich has the most fans in Germany. But unfortunately they are unlikely to ever quit.

if only they would
Is there a non german arround the world that actualy likes them

[Desmo44]

I know that... I am simply saying that generally, the bandwagon is 'glory supporters'... even when Stoner is winning, he doesn't get this.

Exactly. And that's because the masses are mostly attracted by celebrity status and not by performance. There are many knowledgable followers of Stoner who appreciate his skills on the track and care nothing of his performance off the track. They are fans of precision riding, not of off bike entertainment value. They know that as self evident and have no need for fan paraphernalia. And to be forthright, I love Stoner. I love Rossi too, but only when he is legs up on two wheels.