2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Discussion and debate about the MotoGP class

Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Zaphod on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:52 am

re Marquez...... My opinion for a long time, but daren't say it for fear of brutal rebuke. Please put aside all emotion in regards to rider favoritisim when reading.......

If he didn't have that engine, I don't think he's half the rider of the people he races. Bradl won through consistancy, and a bit of luck, on a bike that was not as good as Marquez's machine. Look at what Iannone can do on below par ( by comparison) equipment.

Same for Luthi.

Add todays exemplary riding into the equation, and he's just an arse. He had that corner covered without doing what he did to Luthi. By doing that, and seeing how difficult it was for him to pass Luthi, he just didn't want to be bothered racing all the way to the flag.

Hope Iannone gets his wish for "an engine like that".

Would like to hear Lorenzo and co's take on Marquez's "racing" tactics.........


re Rossi.........sounds like it's all over, when you start talking like that, you've given up. Can't say I blame him, if what he says about his request in regards to the bike he wants and not getting it are true, all the same though, he sounds predisposed to the Ducati never improving, even if it did.

Interesting that the one guy who could ride around their problems left, they brought in another team who thought they could fix the bike, who it now appears Ducati hired on the premise that they had someone else who could ride around their problems, just like the other guy.


Also noteworthy, at this very early stage, is that the guy who got sick of riding around Ducati's problems now appears to have to do the same with another manufacturer.


No wonder they both think about racing cars...............though maybe Rossi would be better off not to drive for an Italian marque.... 8-) :lol: ;)





Whatever Lorenzo's got, it sure as hell seems to make for a happy camp.To the outsider, it at least looks like Yamaha listen to what he and the team tell them.

Not sure it's working for Spies though...............
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby DJH on Mon Apr 09, 2012 3:54 am



So after all of this, perhaps he should have taken some more time with the bike he was originally served up, and tried to modify his style to keep the bike competitive, and tune out the front end issues bit by bit. Instead the sky was falling and everything required a major redesign.. which has ultimately made him even less competitive.

Now that he has officially thrown Ducati under the bus, hopefully the gloves will come off and the laundry can be aired publically once and for all.

Rossi claims that this is not the bike that he asked for. Is this only because he can't ride it? How much MONEY needs to be thrown into a project, and how many REVISIONS need to be rolled out before the bike is to his liking? Valentino is not liking the taste of his medicine one little bit.

Congratulations to Hayden. He continues to plug away and do what he does in a professional way. Sixth is a respectable result for their first proper outing on the new bike and I'm sure his team will continue to try and get him closer to the battle at the front.

The shit's about to hit the fan hey?
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby CLX on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:07 am

I.m a bit shocked at Rossi's remarks. Could he have lost that last ounce of mojo after two very frustrating seasons?
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby CLX on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:09 am

Zaphod, why is it then that MM gets that engine before everyone else if a new Rossi called Ianonne could be created?
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Zaphod on Mon Apr 09, 2012 4:18 am

I don't see Iannone having much in common with Rossi, other than being Italian, and ( Rossi of more than 18 months ago) loving racing and never giving up ( like I said....Rossi more than 18 months ago...)

Something to do with Marquez being Spanish and Iannone being Italian ? ?......or is Repsol Italian
?? Honda do sell engines, don't they ?.........like with the transmissions from last years 800's, Honda said anyone could have one, as long as they paid for it..........and Repsol having more money than other moto2 teams,as well as maybe an affiliation in some way to the HRC squad (speculation....undisclosed/unconfirmed, probably vigorously denied).......I dunno, that question doesn't take that much figuring out........Why didn't Bradl get one when he was flogging Marquez silly for the first half of last season ? (while Marquez felt the need to inspect the surface of a few circuits up close)


DJH wrote:So after all of this, perhaps he should have taken some more time with the bike he was originally served up, and tried to modify his style to keep the bike competitive, and tune out the front end issues bit by bit. Instead the sky was falling and everything required a major redesign.. which has ultimately made him even less competitive.

Now that he has officially thrown Ducati under the bus, hopefully the gloves will come off and the laundry can be aired publically once and for all.


I think Stoner might have something to add as to who made Ducati lie down in front of the bus, as would just about everyone else that's ridden it. You might be surprised to learn that it was Ducati's descision to be a public transport speed-hump.

DJH wrote:Congratulations to Hayden. He continues to plug away and do what he does in a professional way. Sixth is a respectable result for their first proper outing on the new bike and I'm sure his team will continue to try and get him closer to the battle at the front.


Agreed, and hope so !..........though his result is about the same as last year.

So if a very dejected rider, who clearly can't be bothered anymore, is saying that nothing has improved, and that Ducati haven't listened to a word, and the other not so dejected rider is finishing pretty much where he did last year.......what's that say about Ducati's approach to racing ? Much the same as the bad ol' days with the Japanese.

"it's not us or the bike.......it's you."

Stoner didn't leave because he liked the colours on the repsol bike better........
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby motogpmd on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:04 am

Zaphod wrote:I maintain........looks like tyre wear to me.

Stoner: "We were by far the fastest out there but after four laps I was started to get real arm pump, my arms were shaking off the bars and I was holding on with two fingers. I couldn't grip and I couldn't use the brakes. Without that there was no problem to win, we're really happy with the speed of the bike. I've got two weeks to go away and train and we can come back again. I felt like a backmarker at the end, but I couldn't hold onto the bike, I couldn't do anything. But if we sort it out, we will be OK.''

So you are saying that Stoner is a liar, that his explanation is a complete fabrication. I on the other hand see no reason to doubt him, especially as his tires looked fine, and no-one else seemed to have any tire problems. I raced myself at national level many years ago and suffered badly from arm pump during some races, so I understand very well the debilitating effect. Everything that you put down to tire wear can just as readily be explained by a rider struggling to control his bike due to a physical problem.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Oscar on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:19 am

Stoner had mentioned earlier that due to the back problems recurring plus his (understandable, I think) preoccupation with being a new Dad had impacted his pre-season training schedule, so I also don't believe that there is a lot of reason to doubt his explanation. That doesn't detract in any way from the fact that Lorenzo ran a beautiful race, and it leaves us with the prospect of a great season with, I hope, P.I. as the earliest possible WC decider. We don't want HRC stomping the field relentlessly and it looks as if that isn't likely to happen, so how good a start to the season is that? :D
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It's the engine stupid.

Postby Flyinlow27 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:20 am

I'm going to go ahead and say that this is Vale getting the message across to Ducati that the engine has to change. Even Prezi may be willing to give that up given his recent defense of Vale, maybe this is how they convince corporate to ditch the 90 degree engine.

"But the same parts aren't working well enough for Valentino."

From Rossi:

"The engine is too agressive."

"This isn't the Ducati I wanted." (engine)

"Ducati didn't follow the direction that I indicated, but I'm not an engineer and I can't solve every problem." (engine)

"The problems with the bike haven't changed, and neither have my requests." (engine)

These aren't problems you can solve with setup alone." (engine)

Think about it. If they don't give Vale a new engine configuration, he's going to leave after this year.

This will undoubtedly bring about the introduction of a narrower V-engine. Even with Nicky's decent finish today, in reality, it was a terrible day for Ducati as a whole. You think Nicky is gonna steal a podium this year? Ha, maybe if Dovi and Cal have a run in, Pedrosa crashes out in the lead, Casey has arm pump, and Jlo highsides one, and I'm a HUGE Nicky fan. As a Ducati lover I must still say that the problem lies within Ducati Corse not it's riders. When Barbera starts scrapping with the satellite Yams I'll believe that Ducati have a capable bike.

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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby motogpmd on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:31 am

Oscar wrote:Stoner had mentioned earlier that due to the back problems recurring plus his (understandable, I think) preoccupation with being a new Dad had impacted his pre-season training schedule, so I also don't believe that there is a lot of reason to doubt his explanation. That doesn't detract in any way from the fact that Lorenzo ran a beautiful race, and it leaves us with the prospect of a great season with, I hope, P.I. as the earliest possible WC decider. We don't want HRC stomping the field relentlessly and it looks as if that isn't likely to happen, so how good a start to the season is that? :D

Absolutely, great race from Lorenzo, and also an outstanding performance from Pedrosa. His starts are just incredible: how does he do that?? And a special mention to Nicky Hayden too. Also a great job by Bradl: LCR must be absolutely delighted after the debacle with Elias last year.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Oscar on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:32 am

Oh deary me. Over at Soup, the font of all wisdom, Julian Ryder, after qualifying:

However, you know that Rossi will be able to do 1min 56sec laps (at least) all race, so despite all the grief he'll be in the top six even if his crew can't throw in a fix.


I await Michael Scott's and Kevin Schwantz's comments with eager anticipation.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby DJH on Mon Apr 09, 2012 6:47 am

Oscar wrote:Oh deary me. Over at Soup, the font of all wisdom, Julian Ryder, after qualifying:

However, you know that Rossi will be able to do 1min 56sec laps (at least) all race, so despite all the grief he'll be in the top six even if his crew can't throw in a fix.


I await Michael Scott's and Kevin Schwantz's comments with eager anticipation.


I'm sure that Rossi fans must feel like their heart has been torn out of their chests at this point. Still, if I was Ducati I would be fuming at his comments. He has had many, many different versions of bike to make work for him in some way, and has failed each and every time. His attitude is piss poor - you only have to look across the garage at how Hayden is carrying himself. He wants podiums too. He wants wins and championships. But he is prepared to continue working at it to make a competitive package.

The minute Rossi doesn't get a result he likes - it's everyone/thing's fault except his own.

Maybe a few more rounds on the GP10/11 without radical changes would have been more worthwhile than selling their soul and moving away from their own intended direction. At least one former Ducati employee thought so, and to me it's looking more and more like that would have been the more sensible option. Yes they had front end issues, but rational and patient development towards dialling it out and getting parts here and there where needed could see them being far more competitive this year than they are.

I'm a huge Ducati fan, but I have definitely not been a fan of what bringing in Valentino has done to their brand.

Thank the racing gods for Carlos Checa (and Nicky Hayden!)


(Moderator note: I've edited this message to remove the mention of another member - RatsMC)
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Flyinlow27 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:11 am

DJH wrote:
Oscar wrote:Oh deary me. Over at Soup, the font of all wisdom, Julian Ryder, after qualifying:

However, you know that Rossi will be able to do 1min 56sec laps (at least) all race, so despite all the grief he'll be in the top six even if his crew can't throw in a fix.


I await Michael Scott's and Kevin Schwantz's comments with eager anticipation.


I'm sure that Rossi fans must feel like their heart has been torn out of their chests at this point. Still, if I was Ducati I would be fuming at his comments. He has had many, many different versions of bike to make work for him in some way, and has failed each and every time. His attitude is piss poor - you only have to look across the garage at how Hayden is carrying himself. He wants podiums too. He wants wins and championships. But he is prepared to continue working at it to make a competitive package.

The minute Rossi doesn't get a result he likes - it's everyone/thing's fault except his own.

Maybe a few more rounds on the GP10/11 without radical changes would have been more worthwhile than selling their soul and moving away from their own intended direction. At least one former Ducati employee thought so, and to me it's looking more and more like that would have been the more sensible option. Yes they had front end issues, but rational and patient development towards dialling it out and getting parts here and there where needed could see them being far more competitive this year than they are.

I'm a huge Ducati fan, but I have definitely not been a fan of what bringing in Valentino has done to their brand.

Thank the racing gods for Carlos Checa (and Nicky Hayden!)


Hmm Nicky seems to be pretty happy with the GP12 compared to the GP10/11 so you might want to stop talking about the GP10 and 11 like they were actually good bikes. They were terrible for every rider. Including mentioned Carlos Checa who ran as a WC in '10 at Estoril, qualified a whopping 17th, and had a DNF.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby DJH on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:20 am

Who cares what Nicky thinks. Right?

Nicky also regularly finished in 4th for most of the 2010 season and snagged a podium. What has he achieved since they started chopping up the Duck to Rossi's standards? What has Ducati achieved since they signed him (apart from moving away from their brand that is?).

Absolutely nothing, that's what, and now it's all Ducati's fault again. What a crock of shit.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby motogpmd on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:34 am

DJH wrote:Who cares what Nicky thinks. Right?

Nicky also regularly finished in 4th for most of the 2010 season and snagged a podium. What has he achieved since they started chopping up the Duck to Rossi's standards? What has Ducati achieved since they signed him (apart from moving away from their brand that is?).

Absolutely nothing, that's what, and now it's all Ducati's fault again. What a crock of shit.

Rossi has a long history of spitting the dummy when things don't go his way, something that a lot of his fans and some journalists choose to ignore. Of course when Stoner has a whinge he is widely criticized for "moaning" but Rossi is just as bad.

Anyone who thinks this situation is all Ducati's fault is being incredibly naive.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Flyinlow27 on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:43 am

yes Nicky did have a string of 4th place finishes and a podium. This was also the year Casey crashed a lot, Pedrosa was hurt a lot, Vale was hurt a lot, Marco/Ben were new to the class both on satellite machinery.

I seem to recall Ben Spies passing Nicky a lot. This was while still on Tech3 hand me downs.

If the GP12 was a legitimate bike in the hands of any of the Ducati riders it would have qualified in the top 3. By the laws of the obvious, competitive means competitive. Not battling for 6th place. Not trying to latch onto the second group of riders. Whats worse is that actually seeing it on the track proves that it's race pace is even worse than we thought.

In case you missed it, two Tech3 bikes finished ahead of all of the Ducati's. I think your loyalism to the brand is clouding your judgement. No offense.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Zaphod on Mon Apr 09, 2012 7:46 am

Sooooo.....stoner complaining of the same issues as Rossi is just two more blokes who don't know shit about what makes a good bike .....
The thing is a pile......Hayden does better than Vale, (as did Stoner) and even does better/likes what has been acheived with JB and Rossi's input over the complete pile of crap that it was last year.

Rossi, like any rider knows what he needs to do well.........Ducati missed the mark with every rider that has ridden for them, including Stoner, and on current trend would appear to be either quite happy running around with the Sattelites at best, or pulling out altogether........unless they really want to listen to people who have had valid input to more than one manufacturer........and that is not down to just the pilot.....it's the whole team that got dragged across.

Whether Rossi has lost his drive or not...........he, and that team, know their stuff.


It is Ducati's fault, and was long before Rossi, JB and co ever got there.........Who gives a toss about stupid fan-boi back and forths.

Both Stoner and Rossi had the same complaints. Stoner kept it in-house a lot longer than Rossi, though in the end was nearly as vocal of his complaints as the Italian....I have the Stoner articles here if you want me to scan them.

Rossi being the media hussy that he is, is choosing to bring the shortcomings to a fore sooner rather than later.

It may be to make himself look good........or, as some think, he may also hate the thought of going out playing the note he currently is.


The bike has always been a pile of crap, save for the one year where Stoner made it look good.

......and to drag in WSBK, the rules before Ducati were 750cc for the class...forget the minimum weight reg now.............then because Duck couldn't make a twin to do that, the rules were changed to allow them entry at a level where they stood half a chance, then because it was only just competitive at that weight, and sometimes not, they changed the rules for Duck again.


Is that what should happen here, so as to allow the might of Duck to truly shine forth and put the Japanese in the place they so rightly should be ?

re Stoner and arm pump,.......

you're not on your pat malone thereMD.........I run in state enduro races, and get the ol' arm pump myself. I am not saying he didn't have it.....especially toward the end when he dramatically dropped off in lap times.Having said that, from lap three to 10-ish, he ran some mid to high 55's. Struggle to see how arm pump could be overcome to that extent for 8-odd laps.

Still think the tyres went away at the end more than it did for the other two. Whether they would have caught him sans arm pump is open for debate.

Having said all that, if he ran, which he may well now do, more than a handful of laps at a time in testing, he may have known about it earlier and been able to plan for it better, or book in for the old slice and dice sooner.

My bet is he cuts more laps in free practise 1 and 2 at Jerez.

Tied in to his suffering is the fact that the Honda must have the issues he raises, and be quite the handful to wrestle around at the lap times he is capable of.

Hope they, unlike Ducati, listen.

...........lest they hasten his desire to go home and race cars instead.

re Pedrosa and his starts.

I was waiting for the flag to come out for a ride through in liu of a jumped start.In fact, until the replay I was convinced ( and yelling at race direction through the TV !!) that this had to be the case........ 7th to second in a couple of hundred meters !!??............amazing !


.......maybe it's got something to do with being 1' 6" and weighing 243 grams........ :shock: :lol:
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Oscar on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:22 am

Zaphod wrote:Both Stoner and Rossi had the same complaints. Stoner kept it in-house a lot longer than Rossi, though in the end was nearly as vocal of his complaints as the Italian....I have the Stoner articles here if you want me to scan them.


Yes, that's entirely true, and one of the reasons I fairly steadfastly defended Rossi's comments last year - because I believed them entirely justified. Rather bizarrely, Stoner has been more defensive of the Ducati Corse guys than Rossi - though entirely free with his condemnation of Ducati senior management. You may recall a Parrish trackside interview with Guareschi early in 201, discussing Stoner's announcement of his departure - Guareschi was almost in tears. One got the feeling that there would always be a chair empty at the Ducati hospitality tent for Stoner, and some milk-free pasta steaming in a bowl..

What was galling to Stoner supporters for the last couple of years at Ducati was the constant regurgitation of the 'he's just whingeing', 'he's mentally broken' crap. I think the crowning turd in the toilet-pipe (thank you, General Melchett) was Michael Scott's 'eminence grise' piece in 'Fastest' , though Moody, Ryder and Birt all contributed handsomely to the general hubbub and Schwantz is just a bitter victim of relevance deprivation syndrome. Adams is below contempt.

The tectonic scale of Rossi's statements post Qatar should not be underestimated. There are a considerable number of 'senior' journalistic figures who are going to have extreme difficulty in re-calibrating their earlier pronouncements on Stoner in the light of the fact that he fought for wins to his last race with Ducati - and delivered pretty damn handsomely, though too late to be effective in rescuing his season - with this apparent almost complete capitulation to even try hard at the very opening of the season. 'I can't even stay with Hayden' is, let's be honest, the cry of someone who isn't going to come out to play. J.B sounds weary of trying to inject some confidence into him, like someone who has accepted that for once this is a battle he can't win.

I have admired Rossi since he started racing, and my staunch support for Stoner has nothing to do with being anti-Rossi - I have just wanted to see Stoner accepted fairly for what he is and what he can do, which is by any measure in the top echelon of premier-class racing. To see Rossi curled up in a foetal ball is hard to take and bad for the sport. If indeed he has flown too close to the sun, I for one hope there is someone out there with a fire extinguisher and some feather glue, but if not - motoGp will survive.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Gustav O on Mon Apr 09, 2012 9:35 am

Anyone accusing GEO Technologies of handing out better engines to Marquez have more relevant information about than don´t liking Marquez? Marquez was sixth fastest in the top speed charts, a whopping 3 and 3.5 km/h faster than Luthi and Iannone...
He is still younger and smaller than Iannone and Luthi so he is lighter and he tucks in extremely well behind the fairing.

Regarding the pass it was very hard and would have been pissed if someone did that to me but in the context of GP racing it was not too hard and not eligable for points deductions. A talk to with race direction is a probable and likely cause. Riders on twitter seem to agree with that as well


Krop sums it up perfectly on the main page.

The battle went down to the wire, and only a controversial pass saw the race settled, Marc Marquez passing Thom Luthi and then pulling across and onto Luthi's line. The move went unpunished, not, as the conspiracists would have you believe, because of the flag on his passport, but because the pass was within the limits of the rules. Marquez was past, or had reason to believe he was, and so pulled across to take the correct line for Turn 1.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby DJH on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:16 am

Gustav O wrote:Not cool to take digs at other forum members like this just because they like another rider than your preferred favorite. To me you need to drop the bitter attitude and snide remarks to other members that have other opinions than you. Low class.


Unlike you Gus, I'm sure that both Tourn and Fumi will take it in the way that it was intended.. that is, with tongue firmly planted in cheek.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Gustav O on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:17 am

DJH wrote:
Unlike you Gus, I'm sure that both Tourn and Fumi will take it in the way that it was intended.. that is, with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

Obviously not that clear, that tongue in cheek...
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby ducati1098s on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:24 am

Ducati are a small race team with a small budget compared to Honda and Yamaha. I dont know what the hell people are talking about when they say that Rossi has had AMPLE development opportunities courtesy of Ducati. The size of their budget was clear to see last year when all they were capable of giving him was the revised rear end of the then fledgling GP12 with its inverted swing arm and new shock mounting point.This might have been enough if the bike was 1 or 2 tenths of the pace but it wasn't- it was 7-8 tenths off. The central design precepts of the bike needed junking but all Ducati was able or willing to do was some tinkering. Stoner used to complain that there was no in season development and Rossis experience was very similar.


Ducati have improved the bike this year but whether its just money or engineering stubborness, they seem unable or unwilling to make the really big changes. I dont think this is ever going to change and Rossi needs to get out asap. The journey that needs to be made to achieve a winning bike is too long and too expensive for Ducati.

Haydens attitude is worthy of praise but at the end of the race he was 25+ secs off the lead. That is a lifetime. Rossi is a 9 times WC with 105 wins. Fighting for 5/6th is way more demoralising for him than for most. Im glad that Rossi has dropped the PR positivity but I just cant see how things are going to get better anytime soon. Would Ducati release him from his contract early? Maybe if Italian race fans raged enough-interesting times ahead.

One thing I will say is that if Rossi can throw a leg over another Honda or Yamaha in the future then his time at Ducati will have probably EXTENDED his race career by 3/4 years as he has as much to prove now as he probably had in 2000 and alot more critic to silence than he has ever had
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby jihem on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:39 am

By now, isn't everyone just tired of Ducati PR's frankly hilarious quotes, Rossi's love/hate relationship with the Ducati, Preziosi's perpendicular metaphores ?

This year will be just like last year: what can people honestly expect from Estoril ? What can they possibily bring there that will change things ?
A whole new GP which will promptly be called the 12.1 ?
A V at 75° ? Hey, let's dream a bit: at 60° so Burgess can securely put his lunch there while working on whatever he works on ?
A bike with a swingarm longer than a day in rainy Firenze ?
A quantum COG ?

This is a running joke that is now exploding in everyone's face, from Rossi to Burgess to Prosiozi to Corse. And back. Millions of Euros have been spent on a bike that's even slower than last year's bike and the responsible for all these changes isn't even taking responsabilty for it.
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby ducati1098s on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:45 am

jihem wrote:By now, isn't everyone just tired of Ducati PR's frankly hilarious quotes, Rossi's love/hate relationship with the Ducati, Preziosi's perpendicular metaphores ?

This year will be just like last year: what can people honestly expect from Estoril ? What can they possibily bring there that will change things ?
A whole new GP which will promptly be called the 12.1 ?
A V at 75° ? Hey, let's dream a bit: at 60° so Burgess can securely put his lunch there while working on whatever he works on ?
A bike with a swingarm longer than a day in rainy Firenze ?
A quantum COG ?

This is a running joke that is now exploding in everyone's face, from Rossi to Burgess to Prosiozi to Corse. And back. Millions of Euros have been spent on a bike that's even slower than last year's bike and the responsible for all these changes isn't even taking responsabilty for it.


Love the Burgess lunch quote :D :D :D
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby ducati1098s on Mon Apr 09, 2012 10:53 am

When Rossi first started at Yamaha- they gave him 4 engines to test. The "test and compare different options" methodology enable riders to rule out development backward steps. Rossi was also being asked to refine something- something he and JB are clearly very good at. With the Desmo, Rossi started from a very different starting point-one he absolutely hated in all respects. What do you do in that scenario?
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Re: 2012 MotoGP Round 1 - Qatar

Postby Zaphod on Mon Apr 09, 2012 11:21 am

I find the Burgess "lunch" tasteless, although somewhat in accordance to the general argument that Ducati lovers, and those that use the current failings to prove that everything was soooooo much better when Stoner was there, all because they can't seperate their own personal distaste regarding Rossi's ego/media groupie-ness from his, and subsequently JB's achievements with said annoying elements removed.

If I had F@#$-all budget, tried my best to build something.....found it didn't work, then employed said people with said record, I'd ask what they thought would work, and do my upmost to see they got what they wanted so as to get my products name back at the top of the time sheets.

If I chose to stick with my pre-conceived ideas regarding just what defines my product and how it should be built, then I'm just wasting mine and everybody else's time.

Pride comes before the fall.

7 rider line up changes, with only one ( through sheer ability and will !!) having any real success on the stupid pile of junk is hardly a glowing reflection with which a manufacturer, or biased supporters, should use as a hook with which to hang their hat of superiority on.

These people still fail to realise just how much of the winning Stoner himself was responsible for !!!

............yes Oscar, you read right......I gave Stoner credit.

In Melbourne airport, half cut on my way to W.A.

Won't happen again. 8-) ;) :lol:
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