Ducati goings on. Part 2.

[motor]

So I'll say it. Why is everyone making so much hay over what Rossi said after the Qatar race? It seems to be metastasizing with every retelling and analysis...
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I'll give Ducati some slack since it is now really showing when it's said how small on operation they are in comparison to the competition. I'll cut their riders some slack too because you can see they are frustrated and I'm sure they are less than vague about what they'd like but know their seasons' and careers can't wait.

That's the most level headed view so far, honestly. It was just a simple case of Rossi's frustration boiling over, which is quite understandable, and two parties seem to be making the most of it - the journalists and the rossi 'haters' - which is again quite understandable. Honestly, for me the biggest story from the Qatar weekend was Stoner's result and not Rossi's. It will be quite interesting how the coming races will reveal whether the tyre degradation was a factor, whether Ducati manages to squeeze more out of their new frame and config, etc etc, so an exciting start to a superb season, hopefully.

I mean, come on, it's not the first time that Rossi has lost his cool. I remember him demanding/suggesting a V engine from Yamaha in 2007 and Burgess responding in a later interview that 'he's not qualified to suggest that'

[motor]

A good read...

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... ed-said/P1

I found the last line quite interesting

[tom]

A good read...

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... ed-said/P1

I found the last line quite interesting

Very, very good read, it makes so much sense.

[dave_m]

Just for fun, I pulled up some old crash.net articles from 2008, and it's amazing how little has changed in the last 4 years. Click the links if you're interested, the best part is you could believe the articles were current if the names were changed.

• Ducati riders slower than expected
• Why is there only one quick Ducati?
• Melandri talent 'Beyond Doubt'
• GP9 to have massive changes for Melandri?

Melandri isn't Rossi, but they're styles were never that different. The funny thing is, I think this is the old steel trellis frame too, so probably the last generally competitive bike Ducati had was the 990cc GP6. It's remembering back to all the articles of how X needed to adjust his style for the Ducati, or the GPXX needed to be pushed harder, it's a like a weird time warp.

I wonder if part of Rossi's planning was hoping Ducati could turn it around with the GP12 when the capacity changed back to 1000cc? Rossi started last season still recovering from surgery and then switched to the GP11.1 (GP12) part way through the season, so it was OK to throw away the season if it meant 2012 was going to be better.

[eddahenry]

the only issue now is there isnt even 1 quick ducati

[Oscar]

Just for fun, I pulled up some old crash.net articles from 2008, and it's amazing how little has changed in the last 4 years. Click the links if you're interested, the best part is you could believe the articles were current if the names were changed.

* Ducati riders slower than expected
* Why is there only one quick Ducati?

I bet Mike Nicks - the author of the second article quoted) now feels like the guy who reported that the Hindenburg had landed safely in America after this comment:

the Ducati is actually very hard to ride and only a madcap genius like Stoner can handle it (not believable)

[Gustav O]

Yeah. Hindsight is a beautiful/ugly thing.

[Oscar]

Mind you, Nicks was not on his Pat Malone there - (and it's interesting that the same word crops up) - from the Dennis Noyes article today on SpeedTv: (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/)

A colleague said to me that we journalists have mislead fans by placing Filippo Preziosi on a pedestal as the genius behind the Goliath-slaying Desmosedici when we should have recognized that the true genius was Australian Casey Stoner. He's probably right.

And before my throat's full of boots - Noyes is pretty highly regarded, and I don't think can be counted as a Stoner fan-boi.

[Gustav O]

I am not arguing anything of that, a lot of people did not give Casey the recognition he deserved - including me - but it was more of a philosophical post.

[jihem]

http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/ ... ed-said/P1

very good read indeed. thanx !

I personally cannot believe there isn't a performance clause in the contract, something that bounds the two parties to achieve such or such results. Valentino is too clever to have miss out that some very good riders were instantly changed into back-of-the-pack pilots once on the Ducati. This clause must exists and is maybe one of the reason Valentino lashed out in Quatar.

So, yes, I think Rossi will bail out if results aren't here within a few months.

[WayneG]

Getting out of a contract with Ducati would be one thing, getting out of a contract with Phillip Morris may be a whole lot harder.

[frankrizzo]

one round in and there's already a shitstorm brewing, with rossi fueling the flames apparently. there is no script for this but it's a dicey game rossi's opened up considering ducati's status as an italian national treasure. the pressure's on, big time. nicky hayden going good could make things even worse. i have no idea what will happen.

[Tourn46]

Getting out of a contract with Ducati would be one thing, getting out of a contract with Phillip Morris may be a whole lot harder.

Who is Rossi's contract with... Ducati or Phillip Morris?

Surely Rossi has a contract with Ducati and Ducati have a contract with Phillip Morris?

[motor]

Besides, Rossi has developed a serious case of 'Ducati Intolerance' - isn't that reason enough to skip a few races, say the rest of the season in this particular case?

[WayneG]

Getting out of a contract with Ducati would be one thing, getting out of a contract with Phillip Morris may be a whole lot harder.

Who is Rossi's contract with... Ducati or Phillip Morris?

Surely Rossi has a contract with Ducati and Ducati have a contract with Phillip Morris?

I would assume both. Some of the tweets I have been seeing seem to indicate that he is tied to PM. maybe Krop can confirm.

[rick]

Getting out of a contract with Ducati would be one thing, getting out of a contract with Phillip Morris may be a whole lot harder.

Who is Rossi's contract with... Ducati or Phillip Morris?

Surely Rossi has a contract with Ducati and Ducati have a contract with Phillip Morris?

From what I've read over the years with F1, and as Wayne suggests, PM pays the drivers/riders salary and is involved in the contract negotiation.

They have a huge influence over whatever team they 'sponsor'.

[rick]

Mind you, Nicks was not on his Pat Malone there - (and it's interesting that the same word crops up) - from the Dennis Noyes article today on SpeedTv: (http://moto-racing.speedtv.com/article/motogp-noyes-notebook-he-said-red-said/)

A colleague said to me that we journalists have mislead fans by placing Filippo Preziosi on a pedestal as the genius behind the Goliath-slaying Desmosedici when we should have recognized that the true genius was Australian Casey Stoner. He's probably right.

And before my throat's full of boots - Noyes is pretty highly regarded, and I don't think can be counted as a Stoner fan-boi.

Pretty sure Krop tweeted much the same over the last week, and I think RT'd that quote too.

[Oscar]

From what I've read over the years with F1, and as Wayne suggests, PM pays the drivers/riders salary and is involved in the contract negotiation.

If indeed 'tis so, then (and given Rossi's one-time stance about not riding for 'Tobacco'), he must be feeling like he's entered the mother of all Faustian bargains, brokered by Goldman Sachs and with the validity of a Nigerian fortune offer.

[Tourn46]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this... but I guess it's somewhat Ducati related, maybe... hopefully it will get a quick answer so it doesn't divert away from the Ducati matters...

I have read in a few places that in 2010, the races in which Rossi missed with a broken leg had significantly reduced ticket sales and viewing figures - I know people who didn't bother to watch those races. Does anyone know the true extent of this?

I just wonder if Rossi did leave Ducati and MotoGP in this financial climate (afterall, even Yamaha still don't have a title Sponsor), could/would it *actually* have a significant impact on MotoGP? Does this debate on Rossi/Ducati have a much bigger meaning?

Perhaps Krop might have some thoughts on this?

[Kropotkin]

I don't really want to start a new thread for this... but I guess it's somewhat Ducati related, maybe... hopefully it will get a quick answer so it doesn't divert away from the Ducati matters...

I have read in a few places that in 2010, the races in which Rossi missed with a broken leg had significantly reduced ticket sales and viewing figures - I know people who didn't bother to watch those races. Does anyone know the true extent of this?

I just wonder if Rossi did leave Ducati and MotoGP in this financial climate (afterall, even Yamaha still don't have a title Sponsor), could/would it *actually* have a significant impact on MotoGP? Does this debate on Rossi/Ducati have a much bigger meaning?

Perhaps Krop might have some thoughts on this?

I have a number of thoughts on that. One of the reason that Ezpeleta has taken over the rule book is because he has seen the manufacturers driving the sport away from entertainment and towards technology. While he has the ultimate showman in the series, that is not a problem, the fans will come anyway, but even the greatest of entertainers grow weak and fade away. Everyone has to retire at some point, and Ezpeleta has been planning for this contingency for a while now. He had hoped to have the new and more entertaining series in place when Rossi retired, but Rossi's and Ducati's utter failure to be competitive have meant that he is left in a quandary.

For sure, the viewing figures dropped when Rossi was injured. We also knew that one day, Rossi would retire. Ezpeleta's plan is to replace the showman with the show, tweak the rules to create closer and more exciting racing, and less dependent on one huge personality. If you've ever run a business, you will know that the worst thing that can happen is to have one really big customer. If that customer goes under, or finds a different supplier, your business is finished. If you have a lot of smaller customers, your business can survive the loss of one single customer fairly easily. That is the analogy here: instead of being reliant on Rossi, Ezpeleta is gambling on a wider interest with multiple (though far less famous, perhaps) personalities providing closer racing.

[WayneG]

I have a number of thoughts on that. One of the reason that Ezpeleta has taken over the rule book is because he has seen the manufacturers driving the sport away from entertainment and towards technology. While he has the ultimate showman in the series, that is not a problem, the fans will come anyway, but even the greatest of entertainers grow weak and fade away. Everyone has to retire at some point, and Ezpeleta has been planning for this contingency for a while now. He had hoped to have the new and more entertaining series in place when Rossi retired, but Rossi's and Ducati's utter failure to be competitive have meant that he is left in a quandary.

For sure, the viewing figures dropped when Rossi was injured. We also knew that one day, Rossi would retire. Ezpeleta's plan is to replace the showman with the show, tweak the rules to create closer and more exciting racing, and less dependent on one huge personality. If you've ever run a business, you will know that the worst thing that can happen is to have one really big customer. If that customer goes under, or finds a different supplier, your business is finished. If you have a lot of smaller customers, your business can survive the loss of one single customer fairly easily. That is the analogy here: instead of being reliant on Rossi, Ezpeleta is gambling on a wider interest with multiple (though far less famous, perhaps) personalities providing closer racing.

Hallelujah!! Words of wisdom indeed.
I have felt this for a long time but thought voicing it would lead to another one of "those" discussions which I have no further interest in. Rossi is a phenomenal talent and Rossi is a superstar in the league of movie and music stars. The problem as I see it is that he is the ONLY superstar in the sport today and the ONLY superstar the sport has ever known in it's 63 year history. Every previous champion and competitor of the sport has been much more in the Stoner (as an example) mould when it comes to public exposure. Probably the closest in popularity would be Sheene or Ago but there popularity wasn't on the same level as that of Rossi. Valentino is a PR dream. He has the charm, wit, charisma, talent and intelligence to have built a fan base of immense proportions and I have no problem with that. With the assets he possesses it would have been foolish if not impossible not to.

While his stardom has undoubtedly attracted an enormous amount of new followers to the sport it has also attracted a new class of follower. While we still have the die-hard fans of the sport like myself, with our own particular favourites, we now have a very large group of people who are fans of Rossi not fans of the sport. If Valentino had chosen to race cars or play football, those fans would be there not here. We are lucky that he has chosen mortorbikes as his sport and we have been able to witness a fine career. I believe however when he does decides to leave the sport the majority of those fans will also leave and that is when DORNA will take the hit.

I applaud Ezpeleta and DORNA for recognising this and formulating contingency plans to lessen the blow.

[Tourn46]

I have a number of thoughts on that. One of the reason that Ezpeleta has taken over the rule book is because he has seen the manufacturers driving the sport away from entertainment and towards technology. While he has the ultimate showman in the series, that is not a problem, the fans will come anyway, but even the greatest of entertainers grow weak and fade away. Everyone has to retire at some point, and Ezpeleta has been planning for this contingency for a while now. He had hoped to have the new and more entertaining series in place when Rossi retired, but Rossi's and Ducati's utter failure to be competitive have meant that he is left in a quandary.

For sure, the viewing figures dropped when Rossi was injured. We also knew that one day, Rossi would retire. Ezpeleta's plan is to replace the showman with the show, tweak the rules to create closer and more exciting racing, and less dependent on one huge personality. If you've ever run a business, you will know that the worst thing that can happen is to have one really big customer. If that customer goes under, or finds a different supplier, your business is finished. If you have a lot of smaller customers, your business can survive the loss of one single customer fairly easily. That is the analogy here: instead of being reliant on Rossi, Ezpeleta is gambling on a wider interest with multiple (though far less famous, perhaps) personalities providing closer racing.

Thanks for the response Krop, I think that's a really fair couple of points

[JanBros]

people were asking the same question in F1 : what if Schumacher would retire ?

You know what : the circus just went on without him, and he wasn't missed - except for his die-hard fans.

[Faster1]

For sure, the viewing figures dropped when Rossi was injured.

, I have no doubt of the accuracy of your claim. But I have no idea who would watch racing for the singular reason of seeing one (even the best) rider, then completely ignore, or stop watching the same series because said rider is not there. I understand that polarizing personalities can only add to the spectacle and I acknowledge their value but,, seriously, who are "these people", who place these qualities above all,, housewives? children? smitten teen girls? Would "these people" pay to watch said rider ride around the track by himself? Does the rest of the grid even need to leave the paddock? Being a fan of "a" rider is one thing, and we all have heroes and villains, but I must be the mental midget among "these people" because I don't get it. I watch for the "r a c i n g" and I was truly under the impression that everyone else does too. Do any of you know a person who truly watches every race religiously, then did not or will never watch any race that doesn't have "their rider" participating? I'm not talking about someone who loses a bit if interest, but one who truly won't watch if their "chosen one" isn't there. What is it that makes equal parts "all or nothing" about gp for them?

I don't remember the exact first race that got me hooked many moons ago, but I remember that these daredevils were only leathers and Helmets on bikes, void of any personality as far as I was concerned, and like most, interest in particular riders, developed later,, but it was/is the racing first,, the bikes, and what EACH RIDER could do with them.

[Kropotkin]

For sure, the viewing figures dropped when Rossi was injured.

, I have no doubt of the accuracy of your claim. But I have no idea who would watch racing for the singular reason of seeing one (even the best) rider, then completely ignore, or stop watching the same series because said rider is not there. I understand that polarizing personalities can only add to the spectacle and I acknowledge their value but,, seriously, who are "these people", who place these qualities above all,, housewives? children? smitten teen girls? Would "these people" pay to watch said rider ride around the track by himself? Does the rest of the grid even need to leave the paddock?

The vast majority who watch all professional sports are casual viewers, watching for entertainment only. They need heroes and villains, the rest is unimportant.