2012 Round 2 Jerez Race Topic **Spoilers**

[CLX]

If that is not cutting through the pack, then what is?
He has nothing with the others going back and forth, that's their problem. He took it cool at the start, then went up without any banzai crazy moves and got it done.

[Squidpuppet]

This thread is becoming quite entertaining.

[Cam D]

I like horses.... but I don't like parrots

There were heaps of sketchy calls by lots of different people. Hardly surpising as the weather was calling the shots, and prediciting who would win was a lottery. The winners in all three classes were hardly the odds on favourites after qualifying. Lots of guesses and opinions.... and lots of bad calls. Which one in particular has pissed you off so much?

[Sloth27]

Rossi was pathetic, I can't think of another race of his where he rode like he didn't give a shit about the result. Sad to watch to be honest.

Cal is very aggressive but he has the pace to follow at the front. I thought he was going to run up the back of someone he is so late on the brakes.

A lot is being said about Hayden but aside from at least pushing at the start, he should be dissapointed with not being able to stick with Bradl...

Barbera certainly isn't out there to make friends, unlike the mutual admiration society that the podium has become. We'll see how that pans out closer to the end of the season

[Sloth27]

Actually I'm wrong turns out Rossi is "quite satisfied" with his performance. So as long as he's happy...
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http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detai ... ewsid=6867
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[Cam D]

Anyone know what the Honda Frame Design Gaff is that David mentions on the home page?

also I'm looking for an English version of this interview. I've seen it this morning but can't find it again. Anyone know where it was? Thanks.
Found it GPone have put up a version. Rossi sounds quite humble in it, maybe he's hit the bottom and can turn things around now. It was nice to hear him giving paise to Nicky (sort of). http://www.gpone.com/index.php/en/20120 ... trada.html

[Grahluk]

***gripe mode on***

Man, that race was bo-ring. It feels like the 800 era put us on a low sodium diet of expectations and now that we're thrown a couple of Saltine crackers we feel like we're being served haute cuisine. Long winter indeed. I'm now starting to get what non race fans see when they watch a race. "It's just a bunch of guys following each other around in circles. So what?" Yes, maybe because I am a race fan there was a little bit of suspense as Jorge was reeling in and setting up Casey for some last lap action before Casey dug deep and flapped his cramped up arms and cleared off. Very impressive. That's about all I can say. It's horrible to think I'd want Casey's arm pump to become chronic so we can at least have some sort of race season. Maybe Puig could stop feeding Dani between races and throw a few pitbulls in the cage he keeps him locked up in between races so he gets some more fight in his dog. I dunno. Casey's a pretty perfect champion but I fear he's going to go too far into Doohan land and dominate so completely Moto GP becomes a bore and get's threatened by WSBK like it did in the 90's. Dorna may be that unsinkable little boat of namesake but the premier class is looking more like a beached whale. Crushed under it's own weight of massive costs and tech disparity while the waters of sponsorship and fan attendance (Jerez ticket figures anyone?) recedes out to sea. I'm sure some flack will come my way from this post about how great this race was and how if I were a real race fan I would know how exciting it really was. My answer? Yes it had some suspense while watching it live but does this race ever bear repeat watching? Don't think so. I almost nodded out 3/4 through the race after getting up early for it. Yes the top class is a showcase of technical brilliance and virtuosity in riding. Straight snooze as far as racing goes though. What's racing? Moto-emmin effin'-TWO! Now that was a race and it didn't even run the full distance. Admiral Ezpeleta better work fast. Rossi might take his Yellow horde over to the GP retirement league of WSBK and do a PR hatchet job on MotoGP about how much more fun and exciting the racing is over there. When a $4million Honda fires up in the woods and nobody is there to hear it does it make a sound? My best hope is that Carmelo pushes a grid full of rev capped CRT's with bloodthirsty young buccaneers fresh from the meat grinder of Moto2 to come up and bang the aging wonder fairies off into their own early retirements. Marquez would look oh so dashing in an eye patch!

[eddahenry]

Maybe they should just force Casy to ride the duck and give his Honda to Rossi
Would that make everything better for the people that are board

[tom]

I agree with some of that Grahluk but I dont think MotoGP will ever be like moto2... unless you really do make it 1000cc Moto2 spec'd and I hope they dont do that. The premier prototype class is rarely going to be fantastic racing, that's just the way it is and I'm cool with that, that said its not sustainable at the moment so something has to change and I'm not sure CRT's in there current form are the answer.

Anyway back to the race, I defiantly agree with you re Casey. He showed yesterday that he can beat his only two real rivals at one of their home GP's, a track they both favour and excel on, on a weekend where he and his crew struggled. Like the previous round (and I made the same call then) this round just reinforces my view that barring injury Casey will walk away with the championship this season. DP (especially) and JL should have won this round, DP had a 0.3 second advantage in raw speed compared to JL and a home crowd advantage compared to CS, yet finished 2 seconds back. I think Honda need to set Mick Doohan up with a farm and a handful of dirt bikes and get a school of hard knocks started like King Kenny has. Danny needs more hunger, fire in his belly a couple of weeks fairy bashing banging with say Mick D, Wayne G and maybe Darrell B might be just the ticket.

Edit for Lebowski: Its a disturbing picture either way, considering they are only meant to be tiny little things but I suppose if you had to choose....

[CLX]

Maybe they should just force Casy to ride the duck and give his Honda to Rossi
Would that make everything better for the people that are board

I LOLed.

[lebowski]

a couple of weeks fairy banging with say Mick D, Wayne G and maybe Darrell B might be just the ticket.

Fixed it for you.

[Oscar]

a couple of weeks fairy banging with say Mick D, Wayne G and maybe Darrell B might be just the ticket.

Fixed it for you.

Seeing as M.D and D.B have two good legs between the pair of them, why does this comment cause me to think: 'Where's the gimp? - Well, WAKE him'

Mind you, being told you're going too slow with the full-fat Doohan glare would scare the pants off Godzilla... oysters have been known to head for the treeline...

[motogpmd]

Actions speak louder than words. Plenty of action in the race. Plenty of egg on faces here, but no-one with the guts to admit it.

I am happy to admit that I thought Stoner would struggle to make the podium. The kid is amazing. Brings back memories of Rossi at his best. I did predict that we would need to wait until Jerez to get a real indication of how this year might pan out. Well, if Stoner can beat Lorenzo and Pedrosa on their home turf in a dry race after he had a very ordinary practice and qualifying (and no warm up) it simply confirms that Stoner is entitled to be the hot favorite for the championship. Also Stoner winning at Jerez is surely a big psychological blow for Lorenzo and Pedrosa.

[dave_m]

I'm not sure the results between Stoner, Lorenzo and Pedrosa mean much other than it looks like those 3 will be there each race. There's absolutely no reason for Lorenzo or Pedrosa to think it means anything except that Stoner got up to speed quickly in the dry and got lucky with a better setup in the race, kind of like how Stoner would have viewed his poor qualifying session. The two might wish they had done things differently, but having a single dry session before pretty much means it's a little bit of a crapshoot where no one gets their setup right. Not exactly the kind of conditions where the results necessarily say anything about the upcoming rounds.

[Oscar]

Also Stoner winning at Jerez is surely a big psychological blow for Lorenzo and Pedrosa.

I rather doubt that - Lorenzo for one seems very calm and assured of what he can do this year, and with good reason. Obviously he would have very much liked to bag that one but he knows why it didn't happen and it wasn't any fault in his riding nor an inadequate bike. Pedrosa may be a little more rattled, not so much by Stoner winning but by finding that the balance of his caution to not get injured yet again played against him. He has every reason to guard his frame and that race just reduced the margin he has between self-preservation and winning races. The racing is better when he's there rather than on the sidelines and banged-up.

All that said, both of them may be a bit unsettled by the fact that -it seems - it is pretty much impossible to make any informed judgement of how Stoner will perform from any of the evidence prior to the flag dropping. Yes, I said flag dropping - not lights-out. Prima facie, the previous race lost through arm-pump, never quite being on it in practice, not working the warm-up slot and Stoner's record at Jerez all added up to Stoner being less than optimally competitive. For several years now it has been Stoner's habit to disengage from close-quarters battle in the later FP's and QP, allowing others to make the running and then toddling out for a lap or two and re-setting the bar, never letting it be judged as to how much he had in reserve. He basically made everybody else do the work and wait to see if he couldn't clear the mark they had set.

It would have to be a bit like knowing if a dog is going to bite by the depth of the growl and then having it rip yer bloody arm off after it's licked your hand enthusiastically. If the guy is sitting on pole with a half-second advantage you'd have cause to suspect his chances were good, but dealing with bi-pole-er disorder is too unpredictable.

[JanBros]

Actually I'm wrong turns out Rossi is "quite satisfied" with his performance. So as long as he's happy...
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http://www.bikesportnews.com/news-detai ... ewsid=6867
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So it took him more than one year and 20 races to realize he needs to adjust his riding style ? That doesn't look like somebody who is the GOAT, more like somebody who is a goat

[Cappra]

...... that Stoner got up to speed quickly in the dry and got lucky with a better setup in the race, .........

Lucky? What, do you think the suspension mechanic, the engine mechanic and the computer gurus put their favourite settings into a hat and have a lucky dip.

......... but having a single dry session before pretty much means it's a little bit of a crapshoot where no one gets their setup right.

It was the same crap shoot for everyone. And there's no evidence that Lorenzo, Pedrosa or Crutchlow were too impeded by their equipment and choices. No, they were simply out ridden. Didn't you notice Casey sliding at the entry, the centre and the exit to the corners? Didn't you notice Casey take some weird lines to stay off the wet spot and then steer the bike around with big rear wheel slides? Didn't you notice Lorenzo close up with his long sweeping 'classical' lines only to have Casey turn tighter, get the bike upright and firing the Honda off the corner to gain a four bike lengths advantage in 100 metres? Didn't you notice Casey pull out .5 a second a lap over the last two laps?

Casey just smashed them, at every level. Every other rider in the MotoGP field just left Jeraz thinking "Faaaarck, what do I have to do to beat this guy"

Not exactly the kind of conditions where the results necessarily say anything about the upcoming rounds.

Unless you value skill, talent, commitment, courage, self-belief, experience and uncanny Racecraft .

I think Casey just became 'the boy most likely' .

[motogpmd]

All that said, both of them may be a bit unsettled by the fact that -it seems - it is pretty much impossible to make any informed judgement of how Stoner will perform from any of the evidence prior to the flag dropping. Yes, I said flag dropping - not lights-out. Prima facie, the previous race lost through arm-pump, never quite being on it in practice, not working the warm-up slot and Stoner's record at Jerez all added up to Stoner being less than optimally competitive. For several years now it has been Stoner's habit to disengage from close-quarters battle in the later FP's and QP, allowing others to make the running and then toddling out for a lap or two and re-setting the bar, never letting it be judged as to how much he had in reserve. He basically made everybody else do the work and wait to see if he couldn't clear the mark they had set.

It would have to be a bit like knowing if a dog is going to bite by the depth of the growl and then having it rip yer bloody arm off after it's licked your hand enthusiastically. If the guy is sitting on pole with a half-second advantage you'd have cause to suspect his chances were good, but dealing with bi-pole-er disorder is too unpredictable.

Oscar, you disagreed with me, then rather neatly confirmed what I said, just in different words. We have seen this several times now: Stoner apparently struggling in practice (LS11, BRNO11 for example), but come the race he goes out and wins the thing. That is psychologically unsettling for his opponents.

[Rossifumi]

Wow @ Fenati - that was just something special. I think people getting over excited about the MotoGP victory should have a watch of the Moto3 race... a 16 year old just shat in the face of everyone else that turned up to Jerez!

Haven't we been hearing incessantly that a rider running away at the front (usually when it's a certain Aussie) is boring...

A 16yr old kid in his second ever GP running away and winning is an exciting prospect......and it gets very tiresome when every thread and comment gets turned in to 'Casey against the world'.

[rick]

...... that Stoner got up to speed quickly in the dry and got lucky with a better setup in the race, .........

Lucky? What, do you think the suspension mechanic, the engine mechanic and the computer gurus put their favourite settings into a hat and have a lucky dip.

[snip]

Yes, it's best guess in a situation like that.

At least they had settings from several weeks prior, and you hope like hell it all still works, or your rider can ride around it if it isn't.

Tracks can change hugely from session to session, let alone several weeks and rain in between.

[Cappra]

Yes, it's best guess in a situation like that.

Whilst the vagaries of motorcycle handling and tuning is not an exact science nor is it a black art or a lucky dip. The team of technicians and rider get together and think it through to get the best compromise. It's the same for all of them and I wouldn't describe the process for any of them as 'best guess' or even an 'educated guess', and definitely not luck. Lots of thought, experience and input goes into the settings.

It was not luck we witnessed, it was superb riding.

[Upon1]

My observations:

What a race! Ok so maybe it wasn't the best ever, maybe we have been used to terribly boring races from the 800's, whatever. My heart was alternating between mouth and stomach for the first 8 laps while everyone diced around and was slipping and sliding and bumping around the track in a group of 8 or so! Then Stoner and Lorenzo like the cream of the crop they are, rose and went to the front. I think once, for the briefest of moments did the gap go out to more then 1 second. Knowing what happened in Qatar, there was lots of reason to think that the race wasn't over by a long shot...and indeed it wasn't. I saw from the helicopter shot Stoner running wide and losing 0.5sec in that corner and it was on again! I think Lorenzo was rehearsing a move for sure at the last corner when he alllllllllmost pulled alongside Stoner and then Stoner just pulled the pin for the last 2 laps! Brilliant racing I think.

I guess nothing that Stoner ever does will impress Tourn. Dropping to 8th from at the first corner and then taking the lead a few laps later is cutting up the field! 7 MotoGP riders didn't just peel of to the side and let him pass. But that's alright, that's your view.

Grahluk, there was almost 104,000 people at a damp Jerez I believe. Damn decent showing for somewhere that's suffering so much as they are at the moment. And the crowd were applauding Stoner winning. Of course not as much as if Lorenzo or Pedrosa won, but certainly they were enjoying the show...also confirmed by the crowd standing on their feet everytime the lead 2 went passed.

Cappra, I just watched the post race interviews (not the one they show on telly, the longer one after that) and it was quite funny, Michael Scott said (something along the lines), "you made a change after qualifying but didn't ride in WUP, how did you know it would work?" Stoner's response, "We didn't." It was a total gamble, nothing more or less.

[Cam D]

Choosing what tyre you are going to run whilst sitting on the grid is a "best guess" scenario. Worked for some and not for others.

[Richo]

Choosing what tyre you are going to run whilst sitting on the grid is a "best guess" scenario. Worked for some and not for others.

worked pretty well for Cal Crutchlow

[Cappra]

It was a total gamble, nothing more or less.

Funny how luck always favours the talented isn't it?