Ducati goings on. Part 2.

[Zaphod]

You're right. It's a lot of work to turn around what , on the surface, appears to be a minor issue.

Part of me wonders that ,if after the success of 06 and 7, have they been taking it a bit easier than they should.

It's a smartarse throw away line I've used before, but they only had to look over their shoulder at Suzuki to see what happens when you count on one person to keep pulling you through. I got laughed at when I suggested that they could do worse than having Edwards or Bayliss as their test rider instead of, or in conjunction with, Batta. I would like to see the difference in lap times (at pace) between what Hayden and Rossi turn out at any given test and circuit, vs Bat's.Surely you need someone testing the bike that can push it to within 1/2 a second or so of your race riders, otherwise what can you possibly stand to learn that will be applicable, or helpful, when it comes to race day ?

I can't imagine what engine mods they are going to try in Estoril to attempt to get around the problem. If it is along the lines of what has been disscussed above, you may not technically need a new engine, but it's going to be near enough to a new engine in order to change power delivery.

[Hanuman]

You're right. It's a lot of work to turn around what , on the surface, appears to be a minor issue.

Part of me wonders that ,if after the success of 06 and 7, have they been taking it a bit easier than they should.

It's a smartarse throw away line I've used before, but they only had to look over their shoulder at Suzuki to see what happens when you count on one person to keep pulling you through. I got laughed at when I suggested that they could do worse than having Edwards or Bayliss as their test rider instead of, or in conjunction with, Batta. I would like to see the difference in lap times (at pace) between what Hayden and Rossi turn out at any given test and circuit, vs Bat's.Surely you need someone testing the bike that can push it to within 1/2 a second or so of your race riders, otherwise what can you possibly stand to learn that will be applicable, or helpful, when it comes to race day ?

I can't imagine what engine mods they are going to try in Estoril to attempt to get around the problem. If it is along the lines of what has been disscussed above, you may not technically need a new engine, but it's going to be near enough to a new engine in order to change power delivery.

Who knows what they might be up to with the engine at Estoril but at sometime, surely, you've got to stop and give youself a baseline.
It was Burgess, I believe, who made the statement along the lines of Ducati only examining the successes and not the failures....Well, given the rapid, seemingly unreflective, continual changes going on, I'd wager the reverse of that is what they're up to now...

[yzr750]

[quote="Zaphod"Surely you need someone testing the bike that can push it to within 1/2 a second or so of your race riders, otherwise what can you possibly stand to learn that will be applicable, or helpful, when it comes to race day ?

[/quote]

I think that is totally unrealistic, anyone that could get within 1/2'sec of Rossi or Hayden would be racing, not a test rider.

[dave_m]

Surely you need someone testing the bike that can push it to within 1/2 a second or so of your race riders, otherwise what can you possibly stand to learn that will be applicable, or helpful, when it comes to race day ?

I think that is totally unrealistic, anyone that could get within 1/2'sec of Rossi or Hayden would be racing, not a test rider.

I think the truth is somewhere in between, as I don't think any test riders are near that close to the top riders. However, I think Ducati has a serious test rider problem, and they should follow the Japanese factories and enter their test riders (and others) as wild-cards in the European rounds. Look at the examples at Motegi and Sepang last year where Akioshi, Ito and Nakasuga aren't near the front, but they still have respectable times.

The Ducati has seemed to have problems anytime the conditions aren't perfect, and I'm wondering if actually racing wouldn't be a worthwhile exercise for their test riders. It would sure be useful to us to see just how close their test riders are in relation to Honda and Yamaha.

[Zaphod]

1/2 a second was a random number. Surely there is someone faster than the Batman. Bayliss is still on Duc's books doing promo work, as well as the odd outing/test sesion on current bikes. I realise he's been away for a little while, but in interviews he says he feels like he quit too soon. Someone with pace, who you already employ is a better bet, surely.

Although, I may be being too harsh, does anyone know where Bat came from (as in racing background etc) ? My ignorance, as I don't.

If, as in the previous posts, I had that amount of work to get through in such a short time...as well as having to work with the limited number of test days availiable to the team riders, I would be looking for a "name" who is known to be quick and capable to whizz around in private testing on the bike. That way, you'd at least lessen the workload of the team riders, and shorten the lead time of new bits to the race bikes.


I realise that they have probably thought of all this, and have got who they could.

[Oscar]

If, as in the previous posts, I had that amount of work to get through in such a short time...as well as having to work with the limited number of test days availiable to the team riders, I would be looking for a "name" who is known to be quick and capable to whizz around in private testing on the bike. That way, you'd at least lessen the workload of the team riders, and shorten the lead time of new bits to the race bikes.

Don't forget Guareschi - who admitted he couldn't ride like Stoner - but may be closer to Rossi / Hayden's style. However I agree, he's still too slow. Guintoli still rides a Ducati...

[Zaphod]

Melandri ?




...that'd be like Rossi getting a test riders gig for HRC.

As much as that's a joke, if they listened to what he had to say regarding feedback, it's not that "out-there" a proposition.He seemed to find some of his old mojo in wsbk.

[Cam D]

If they were smart they'd give Hector one of the new bikes and get him to try out the new bits as payment. He's quick enough and they could have some factory tech on his team to collect the data etc. jmo
In the past the second string riders were often the guineapigs. I know Daryl often tested stuff for Mick and Wayne way back.

[Rusty Bucket USA]

Adaptation to the "Ducati style"?

(link to full-size original)
(link to album page)

[Geonerd]

Adaptation to the "Ducati style"?

Don't ya mean, "Hayden/Martinez Style?"

[Zaphod]

If they were smart they'd give Hector one of the new bikes and get him to try out the new bits as payment. He's quick enough and they could have some factory tech on his team to collect the data etc. jmo

They've tried with that calibre of rider before.

.....and Xaus never gave them as much feedback as the guy who could run at the same pace without falling off.

And part B would be, "was he faster than Hayden/Rossi on that lap, or was it just down to the tow he got off them ?"

Sorry, but facts are facts. He gets the odd good position in Qual when he hooks up for a tow, and then during the race he's in the same positions he (or any variant of the Duc Racer that didn't have Stoner on it) has always been in. Only now, he waits till the last couple of laps to pull a desperate on a circulating ( by his standards) and demoralised Rossi in an effort to show everyone he's a better rider.

He's a top rider......but not in direct comparison to his peers. I used to like him in 250's, but that was because I didn't like Lorenzo.....and Hector shits him. He was never much of a challenge to Lozza, except on the odd occasion when all the stars aligned and saved him from falling off where he normally would.

[Cam D]

If they were smart they'd give Hector one of the new bikes and get him to try out the new bits as payment. He's quick enough and they could have some factory tech on his team to collect the data etc. jmo

They've tried with that calibre of rider before.

.....and Xaus never gave them as much feedback as the guy who could run at the same pace without falling off.

And part B would be, "was he faster than Hayden/Rossi on that lap, or was it just down to the tow he got off them ?"

Sorry, but facts are facts. He gets the odd good position in Qual when he hooks up for a tow, and then during the race he's in the same positions he (or any variant of the Duc Racer that didn't have Stoner on it) has always been in. Only now, he waits till the last couple of laps to pull a desperate on a circulating ( by his standards) and demoralised Rossi in an effort to show everyone he's a better rider.

He's a top rider......but not in direct comparison to his peers. I used to like him in 250's, but that was because I didn't like Lorenzo.....and Hector shits him. He was never much of a challenge to Lozza, except on the odd occasion when all the stars aligned and saved him from falling off where he normally would.

He's probably faster and more up to date with the Ducati than any other rider I've heard suggested so far, and the best place to test a bike is during the actual race - in the same conditions and on same track as their lead riders. Plenty of comparative data to ort through, data they wouldn't be getting from Guareschi. I doubt the exercise would cost them more than sending Guareschi out and hiring a track for a day. The only real fact is Hector isn't Zaus, who knows if he can give good feed back or not?
In my opinion, Hector's riding the bike that the top team said was no good and hasn't really been going any worse than that same team. The team Ducati are paying a gazzillion $$$ to develop their new machine. He shouldn't even be anywhere near Ducati's top rider to make a "desperate"! But Hector was there in the last couple of laps to make the desperate lunge - the same kind of lunge we've seen Jorge and Rossi make plenty of times and the same kind of lunge we expected from Hector in just about every 250 GP race he rode in - no matter who his adversary was. Rossi made an ego fueled comment that Hectory made a deperate pass just because it was "Rossi", doesn't make it a fact. Hector was always a loose cannon on the last couple of laps and I think people let their bias against him put a negative spin on everything he does. But he seems to have cleaned up his act... just like Jorge had to. These days I don't believe he's really any better or worse than any of the other super stars getting around in MotoGP.

[lebowski]

^ +1

[Tourn46]

So then... thoughts on Rossi vs the other Ducati's at Estoril today?

I am expect some very high praise indeed after the reception Hayden got for finishing 5 seconds ahead of Rossi in Jerez.

[Cam D]

He did well, nice to see him having a good go at it. Still 26 sec off the leaders, but at least Ducati will have some good solid data to start tomorrows testing from.

[eddahenry]

So then... thoughts on Rossi vs the other Ducati's at Estoril today?

I am expect some very high praise indeed after the reception Hayden got for finishing 5 seconds ahead of Rossi in Jerez.

No None from me
For 15mil a year he should be expected to be first Duck
Just like how some say Casey Carnt win MOTM because its expected
I would say for the money and time invested 26 seconds from the front is still a huge underachievement

[Sloth27]

So then... thoughts on Rossi vs the other Ducati's at Estoril today?

I am expect some very high praise indeed after the reception Hayden got for finishing 5 seconds ahead of Rossi in Jerez.

I was thinking the same thing. But hey, Hayden always puts in a 'gutsy' ride, even when he's slow...

I doubt they'll have any new parts of value to test tomorrow so it'll just be more work on setup. Sounds like a washout anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if Stoner and Lorenzo are no shows.

[Gustav O]

I was thinking the same thing. But hey, Hayden always puts in a 'gutsy' ride, even when he's slow...

I doubt they'll have any new parts of value to test tomorrow so it'll just be more work on setup. Sounds like a washout anyway so I wouldn't be surprised if Stoner and Lorenzo are no shows.

Ducati have some new parts for tomorrows test as far as the rumors go.

[motogpmd]

So Rossi finished 27 seconds behind a Honda which had visibly severe chatter problems. Last year it was 16 seconds behind the leader. No-one from Ducati deserves any praise this weekend, and that includes Hayden.

[dave_m]

OK, I'll say it. Ducati is a well funded CRT team.

[JanBros]

So then... thoughts on Rossi vs the other Ducati's at Estoril today?

I am expect some very high praise indeed after the reception Hayden got for finishing 5 seconds ahead of Rossi in Jerez.

you clearly haven't read what Hayden had to say after the race

[motogpmd]

Yes, Hayden's electronics were all screwed up. Sound's like he was lucky the bike didn't spit him off, as Lorenzo experienced at Laguna Seca last year. It's a strange new racing world when electronics can mess up a rider's race like that.

[Tourn46]

So then... thoughts on Rossi vs the other Ducati's at Estoril today?

I am expect some very high praise indeed after the reception Hayden got for finishing 5 seconds ahead of Rossi in Jerez.

you clearly haven't read what Hayden had to say after the race

Since when did we start taking circumstances into consideration?

Rossi was top Ducati, put in a good couple of passes, kept a steady pace all race, didn't ruin his tyres. Why aren't we praising this valuable data?

Fingers crossed they make some improvements with the engine parts... according to Alex Briggs on Twitter they fitted 2 new engines this evening... whole new engines... don't know... but must have some differences, one can assume it is relating to the power delivery.

[Squidpuppet]

So then... thoughts on Rossi vs the other Ducati's at Estoril today?

I am expect some very high praise indeed after the reception Hayden got for finishing 5 seconds ahead of Rossi in Jerez.

High praise for doing whats expected? He beat Barbera and Abraham and Haydens bike was boobytrapped.

Since when did we start taking circumstances into consideration?.

I have always taken legitimate circumstances into consideration.

[Oscar]

Rossi was top Ducati, put in a good couple of passes, kept a steady pace all race, didn't ruin his tyres. Why aren't we praising this valuable data?

Yes, it was undoubtedly the most valuable data Ducati gained from the weekend - Hayden's was useless and the other Ducs aren't current development models anyway.

However, you may have let your powder get a bit wet before firing this one off. The race was 11 secs faster this year than last, but Rossi's time was slightly less than 4 secs. quicker than his time last year - riding with the dud shoulder, third race in on the unacceptable first iteration (if I remember correctly ) GP11, the bike on which Rossi crashed (I think) more times than ever in his career.

So, yes - it's progress, but perhaps not at a level that gives rise to joyous celebration throughout the length and breadth of the kingdom. Fair enough to say that Rossi in all probability rode the thing to the extent of its reasonable expectation, but it's hardly pushing the barriers, is it? It's hardly a 'Rossi the magician' ride that we know he can produce, more a self-fulfilling prophecy of a mid-mid-pack performance. Solid baseline data - yes. Phoenix rising stuff? - I think you'd have to be very optimistic to go that far.