JanBros wrote:so yes, the total force that goes through the CoG to the contact patch is exactly the same, but the size of the forces that determine it change ! the centrigugal needs to be bigger . this is correct in my example (just as I said what happens when Stoner brings the combined CoG lower) : he needs to go faster through the corner or he can't keep the bike at the same angle.
Aha! - I think we are talking the same thing, just I was looking at the (bike + rider) as a single entity i.e. the effective CoG to be reacted through the contact patch of the entire assembly, you are talking about the CoG of the bike and adding the CoG of the rider as a modifier [this gets really difficult to express in words] - so absolutey, with Stoner's lower body position, he has to go faster on the same arc to hold the same lean angle on the bike.
The actual height of Stoner's body, though, isn't the critical thing, it's the sideways displacement: if you established the actual CoG of the bike with his body hanging off and drew a line from the contact patch through that position and extended it, he could be anywhere along that line - but he'd need arms and legs metres long to be able to hang far enough off the side to be on that line and further above the ground. As a very crude analogy: in a plane executing a perfectly balanced turn, no matter how steep the angle of bank, neither a full champagne flute nor a beer stein will spill a drop.
It's all fairly academic (and certainly non-controversial, disobeying the basic premise of this thread..) because the whole dynamic of cornering the things they way these guys do is never going to be steady-state for more than a few moments - though Lorenzo probably gets closer to that than anybody. They are all dancing with multiple force effects affecting what is going on, and Stoner is evidently doing a very good job at the way he balances those out at every moment (as are they all; arguably Stoner gets it a poofteenth better enough of the time to make a difference).
Cappra wrote:When I say that Casey is 'thinking' his way through the corner I'm saying he in unconsciously competently receiving mental and physical input/data, processing that data into unconsciously competent physical skills. And I think the difference is measured in poofteenths and it is the combination of mental and physical skill advantage.
In an earlier interview with Stoner (I can't remember which one) he commented that he always does a few laps quite slowly to assess the track, looking at minute changes in surface etc. for old tracks, looking for the fastest line at a micro-level for new tracks, getting a picture of each corner in his head. He's obviously very good at this - witness Aragon '10, when Stoner was the only top rider who did not ride the circuit before the race weekend started and he was up to speed from FP1.
. It is that "minimise everything in between" that we are talking about here. It appears that during the 'tip in' stage and the 'centre' part of the corner Stoner has an advantage over Rossi (and others, Hayden, Capparossi etc etc.). This advantage might be a general advantage or it might be a specific to the Ducati advantage. I think it is a general advantage. I think it is the way Stoner adjust to a host of subtle and constantly varying inputs that is the difference.
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