Ben Spies

[Japhrodisiac]

The Lemans round was perhaps another nail in the coffin, and confirmation of the huge question mark surrounding Ben Spies. My thoughts so far :

Ben has shown a very different, almost careless attitude in the way he comes across in interviews this year, as if he either isn't worried about his current predicament, or he is unwilling to come out and point fingers. He always takes the blame himself, falling on the grenade instead of letting it wreak the havoc that perhaps it should. But why? Either he is entirely to blame, as he has mentioned, or some other factors are at play. here outlined are some basic possibilities :

1. His crew are not up to the task of prepping the bike to a top level competitive setup, week in and out. A few things along these lines have been mentioned here already, this is a complete unknown but this is a crew whom have failed Ben numerous times before (hemostat on vent line, ran out of gas wsbk leading last lap Monza, missed cracked subframe, numerous setup failures) and also brought him a number of successes (maiden year SBK championship, only non-alien dry race winner). Gabbarini and Co. they are not, but how far off is the bike? Surely someone can figure out a settings compromise between JL, Dovi and Cal's data, and a decent rider should be able to make something happen. The thinking here is that out of loyalty, friendship, and respect for past achievements, Ben is unwilling to point the finger of blame at his crew, House in particular.

2. He has lost some of the edge and promise that he had shown earlier at tech3 and in 2011 with the factory team. This may be the case, but when the setup seems on, he runs near the front - at least in FP and QP. I believe, in a similar manner to Rossi, that one does not simply forget how to ride and race a motorcycle. Rather, a number of factors come into play that combine to reduce the level of competitiveness that the rider shows. Allowed to go on for a prolonged period, true deterioration can set in as the mental belief diminishes. Has Ben lost his Edge? I hope not, and it's probably too early to tell.

3. He has fallen in love with cycling, or out of love (a la Stoner) with MotoGp. His recent interview was telling on this issue, insisting that he fully understood Casey's reasons for retiring. The toils of life in Europe for years on end, all the behind the scenes silliness is perhaps too much to bear for many, especially a down to earth homebody like Ben. Remember that Ben never flew until he had to go to Europe to test/race. Perhaps this is the case, but I'm not fully sold on this as the main reason. It may be a contributing factor though.

4. The Lin Jarvis Directive has proven healthy for the state of things at Tech3, but backfired on Ben. Jarvis' comments appear particularly pointed towards Spies, and perhaps Ben has taken that as either a foregone conclusion, or a diminishment of belief in him that has caused some loss of confidence. Combine that with a few unlucky events, which have magnified the situation.

I don't have any answers here, but I am leaning towards #1 as the main factor, combined with a healthy dose of #4 as the adjunct. I believe that Ben Spies has more potential and promise than Dovi, Cal, Bautista, Bradl, and Hayden, but something is holding him back from making good on that promise. And he may not have all that long to figure out a solution.

[yzr750]

There is something wrong for sure, the difference between last season and this is huge.
As far as I am aware his team has not changed, I'm sure he hasn't forgotten how to ride in the off season, so that just leaves the bike as the only variable in the equation.
I would have thought though, given his racing background and physical stature, that the 1000 would have suited him better than the 800, but maybe it doesn't? He didn't exactly have a good pre season on it, so perhaps he just can't come to terms with the new bike?
One thing is certain, he has to get it turned round quickly, or he wont be in motogp next season.

[Rusty Bucket USA]

This thread may go on all year, but I'm going to nip it in the bud now:
As I just posted on the main page, Spies is, essentially, exactly where he was at this point last year, and the year before.
This is not to excuse a lack of improvement, and I have a bevy of questions about the quality of work done in his garage (Who, exactly gets asked about why his bike almost flung itself away like RdP's did? And, why didn't any of the other 3 Tuning Forkers?), but a little perspective would be prudent.
He has a long way to go to catch the other 3 Yamaha riders, to be sure, but the season is still young.

[Oscar]

I haven't kept much of an eye on Spies this year, simply because he's seemed to be very much below the radar for some reason, but I have to wonder whether Jarvis's really rather pointed comments were in response to something he saw happening in Spies? What that may have been I have no theories on, other than perhaps, yes, he is finding himself in a somewhat similar frame of mind to Stoner.

I certainly do agree with those who question his team at the moment as seeming to be floundering; Forcada and Lorenzo appear to be getting the best out of their bike while Spies's FP performances are so varied that it's hard to see that his team have any sort of handle on how to set the thing up. The cracked rear subframe thing was just inexcusably sloppy when they had video images of how it was flopping around.

[dave_m]

I haven't seen any interviews this year [Speed TV sucks a**], but those theories probably aren't too far off. Here's my quick take on Japhrodisiac's list, along with a couple other ideas.

1. His crew is almost certainly part of the problem, how much is basic prep or actual setup isn't clear.

2. Burned out? Maybe making it to MotoGP and winning a race was enough, unlikely, but can't rule out the possibility.

3. Tired of the GP travel requirements? Possibly, but we'll only know for sure if he returns to AMA rather than WSBK if he leaves MotoGP after this season. I think understanding the Stoner retirement is just that they are friends.

4. Probably the least likely of the ideas so far, he's had to race his teammate (Mladin) before when they didn't get along at all.

5. Too many front-end crashes have trashed his confidence. He had some big ones at the end of last year, as well as several so far this year. [Call this the Toseland scenario]

6. The new 1000cc M1 is just the wrong bike for him, and he uses different settings and can't just copy Lorenzo's style. His team aren't sure what's going on and can't get the setup he likes to work consistently. [Call this the Ducati scenario]

[Sloth27]

Even Spies attitude at the moment seems out of sorts and different to his WSBK and Tech3 days. It's like he is indifferent to the results and has resigned himself to being in the second teir of riders, when that isn't necessarily the case.

[Rossifumi]

I always saw Spies as more of a 'Dovi' than an alien. A good rider deserving of a ride in motoGP and capable of good results and the odd win but never likely to consistently run with the front-runners. This year has started badly and he's very obviously at the bottom end of his performance window! but I never saw him making the step up to Lorenzo's level and in that scenario riders don't tend to hang on to top factory rides for more than 2 or 3 seasons; there's always someone new to give a chance. I very much doubt he'll hang on to the factory Yamaha for next season so the question is: satellite motoGP, WSBK or back home to AMA?

[Zaphod]

Tour de France ?

After Estoril he said, and I quote "I made two big mistakes in the first laps.....my fault, and I lost alot of time. Then I made another one when I was chasing Rossi with 8 laps to go and almost Highsided.I'm out of the championship now, but at least I am building confidence in the bike."

The bit in bold itallics is one of the strangest sentences I have read a GP rider (other than the ramblings of Biaggi, or JK) make, 3 rounds into a season. Especially for someone under pressure like he is to keep his seat.

Just doesn't sound right. Giving up already.

[Sloth27]

Tour de France ?

After Estoril he said, and I quote "I made two big mistakes in the first laps.....my fault, and I lost alot of time. Then I made another one when I was chasing Rossi with 8 laps to go and almost Highsided.I'm out of the championship now, but at least I am building confidence in the bike."

The bit in bold itallics is one of the strangest sentences I have read a GP rider (other than the ramblings of Biaggi, or JK) make, 3 rounds into a season. Especially for someone under pressure like he is to keep his seat.

Just doesn't sound right. Giving up already.

Building confidence in the bike is something Bradl is doing, not someone with three years experience on the M1. Sure, it's a new bike but that sounds a bit defeatist...

[Hansd]

So far Spies is the disappointment of the year, and i'm wandering already for a while what's going on..

I tend to rule out the bike as everybody else seems to be doing well on Yamaha: Lorenzo, Dovi, Crutchlow (not a Ducati scenario).
It may be setup problems though, as this is the first new bike they have to setup themselves, and not copy from Lorenzo, or benefit from previous Rossi setup work.

[OZintheDesert]

I make no bones about the fact that I have never rated Ben Spies when he came into the MotoGP paddock, but even I am a bit surprised by his lack of results.

I hate to draw conclusions too soon as we all know how that turns out (CS & Ducati, VR & Ducati, MM & ducati) but here lies the rub. As so many have said previously, the bike is a turn key podium winner, consistently at the pointy end of the grid and the results by 3 other different riders. I personally don't believe that its his team either. There is only so much that his team can play with on that bike just like in any satellite team as Yamaha have their own people also in that garage making decisions and advising along the way. He has the full benefit of data from 3 other Yamaha riders (unlike the Tech 3 guys who only have each other). The excuse "That the bike is new " is only true to a relatively minor extent and surely some of his previous data must be relevant and useful. It won't be all out the window. That team worked on the bike last year and maybe made a few minor errors (in the grand scheme of setting up a bike) but on the whole he was never this slow or inconsistent. where he did badly he crashed out. Where he finished, even this early in the season he had 6th place results. IN the whole of 2011 where he actually finished the race he wasn't outside the top 6. This year he hasn't cracked the top 6, in fact barring portugal, he hasn't cracked the top 10. Thats not just the team. There is more to it than that and now I am starting to call BS on BS.

I haven't seen any pictures of his mum around recently. Is she still there? I notice her twitter account is very much "who can I invite to ben's holiday house in the Bahamas?" She's got Jensen Button & Lance Armstrong with invites month alone..

[motor]

Another possibility is that all the races so far were under cold/night/wet conditions and Spies is not coping well with that for whatever reason...

[Cappra]

Kevin Schwantz was quoted as saying he 'needed to get his head together' (or something similar).

It is hard to fathom or believe, and disappointing. Spies seemed to making good and steady progression showing promise to make the leap to Alien.

I hope he 'gets it together' soon.

[Faster1]

I always saw Spies as more of a 'Dovi' than an alien. A good rider deserving of a ride in motoGP and capable of good results and the odd win but never likely to consistently run with the front-runners. This year has started badly and he's very obviously at the bottom end of his performance window! but I never saw him making the step up to Lorenzo's level and in that scenario riders don't tend to hang on to top factory rides for more than 2 or 3 seasons; there's always someone new to give a chance. I very much doubt he'll hang on to the factory Yamaha for next season so the question is: satellite motoGP, WSBK or back home to AMA?

true to most,, but last year (and the year before) Dovi was on a clearly superior machine than Spies,, clearly. For spies to stay with Dovi on the track, much less best him on a few occasions solidified for me that he was a faster racer of the two. ,,
Which makes this year the utter contradiction as he is on a superior bike than AD, AND a few years more familiar to the nuances of Yamaha. In reality, Ben is way behind last year as far as results, if relevantly measured by the overall competence and competitiveness of Yamaha-V-Honda. Crutchlow is the same rider as last year, riding better and on a better bike, AD's abilities are known.,, So on paper, and at the end of the day Spies is alarmingly slower/inconsistant then the other Yamahas,, and running wide more than the other Yamahas.

Ben's interviews have always been professional, void of emotion and finger pointing so I can't see how anyone can read into his mind-set. Or how anyone can deduce that he is anywhere near "burnt-out". His career up to this point has been storybook perfect, "dominating" in the other series and graduating and properly earning his place in gp today. He was never mid pack before, so how can he be mid-pack now. So is it a matter of either him not being able to relay the needs of his set-up to Tom and the boys, or is Tom referring to a GSXR owners manual for settings. Does Yamaha need to intervene? Do they even want to?
Riders "improve" throughout the year, but I don't remember many "teams" who completely turn it around in that same time frame, which is what (IMO) Ben needs to keep his seat for next year. Unlike Toni Elias's disastrous year, this is (IMO)this not a rider problem, it's a team problem,. Ben never needed/needs to beat Lorenzo to stay factory employed, just finish right behind him, exactly like Pedrosa.

[Gar]

I feel Dovizioso had two years on a factory bike, time for someone else to give it a go. Dovi won one race, a wet/dry lottery, and looked good but not like a champion. I have hope for Crutchlow.

That said, Team Yamaha knows better than we do exactly what Spies' issues are - they may not be looking at a replacement yet.

[Rossifumi]

I feel Dovizioso had two years on a factory bike, time for someone else to give it a go. Dovi won one race, a wet/dry lottery, and looked good but not like a champion.

This is pretty much exactly my stance re Spies

[Gar]

I feel Dovizioso had two years on a factory bike, time for someone else to give it a go. Dovi won one race, a wet/dry lottery, and looked good but not like a champion.

This is pretty much exactly my stance re Spies

If he can't find strong form very soon I am right there with you.

[Tormo4ever]

Being Lorenzo's teammate must be a real bitch. Guy spanks you sunday in sunday out and doesn t even need to get angry to do it. This i am sure is a factor in BS's terrible moment. But there has to be something more. He is too far behind. And like it s been said, it sounds like he doesn t even seem to care that much.

Any way my money is on that both Dovi and Cal will barely improve their results if they go factory bike next year. This year they score a 4th or 5th or crash trying and they get a tap on their back. Next year, three races without a podium and they willl be getting "up your game or you won t be here next year" messages from the guy upstairs.

[Squidpuppet]

Ben's interviews have always been professional, void of emotion and finger pointing

I agree

so I can't see how anyone can read into his mind-set.

Although he still maintains an air of professionalism, something is definitely different about the guy this year. He strikes me as having a "whatever" mindset at present. No clue why, but it seems like his head and heart are just not in it this year.

[Squidpuppet]

That said, Team Yamaha knows better than we do exactly what Spies' issues are - they may not be looking at a replacement yet.

It sounds like still has strong support from within.

team director Massimo Meregalli said he expected Spies to bounce back at Barcelona.

"We were expecting a different race but unfortunately this bad luck doesn't want to disappear," Meregalli said. "We're looking forward to Barcelona, we won't give up and we will get back up to where we belong with Ben."

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/99739

[Cam D]

If the fans of the sport were doing the hiring and firing, no one would get more than 3 months on a MotoGP bike. Casey had lost it, Vale has lost it, Max had lost it, Checa never had it, Dani is an also ran.... and now Ben has lost it/never had it. Have you guys been reading the posts on the main site? Christ... it's like 15 year olds sniping at each other. The comment section really has deteriorated to the point of becoming unreadable. There are so many things going on that we have no knowledge about, but so many difinitve statements are made determining exactly what is going on. It's impossible for us to know, but there never seems to be leniency or understanding, or respect for the rider and his situation.

I haven't seen a rider forget how to ride, so it makes me lean towards something in the team relationship that is not working. Could be communication, could be incompetence? Only they know.

Something that was pointed out by a diligent contributor on the main site. The guys that all had spin issues at the start were on the right side of the track where Simon went down. Apparently there was speculation that oil caused Ben to spin up, and consequently hit his head and misplace/misalign the visor on his helmet. Once that happened the race was over. Not surprised if he seemed a little beaten. Too many things going wrong, but it could all turn around pretty quickly with a few hassle free weekends. jmo

edit: nice to finally hear a little support from the team.

[oldboyonrgv]

Bradley, in a Spanish team racing a Spanish team mate with a Spanish Sponsor - draw your own conclusions.......

Ben Spies - having the same issues as James Toseland but a year later, hope he keeps the support

[tom]

If the fans of the sport were doing the hiring and firing, no one would get more than 3 months on a MotoGP bike. Casey had lost it, Vale has lost it, Max had lost it, Checa never had it, Dani is an also ran.... and now Ben has lost it/never had it. Have you guys been reading the posts on the main site? Christ... it's like 15 year olds sniping at each other. The comment section really has deteriorated to the point of becoming unreadable. There are so many things going on that we have no knowledge about, but so many difinitve statements are made determining exactly what is going on. It's impossible for us to know, but there never seems to be leniency or understanding, or respect for the rider and his situation.

I haven't seen a rider forget how to ride, so it makes me lean towards something in the team relationship that is not working. Could be communication, could be incompetence? Only they know.

Something that was pointed out by a diligent contributor on the main site. The guys that all had spin issues at the start were on the right side of the track where Simon went down. Apparently there was speculation that oil caused Ben to spin up, and consequently hit his head and misplace/misalign the visor on his helmet. Once that happened the race was over. Not surprised if he seemed a little beaten. Too many things going wrong, but it could all turn around pretty quickly with a few hassle free weekends. jmo

edit: nice to finally hear a little support from the team.

Cam you mirror my thoughts exactly!! he has had a terrible run of bad luck and no doubt is has to play with his head in some small way but he hasn't forgotten how to ride and I'm sure he hasn't given up or anything like that. I know people are not trying to be nasty or overtly judgemental but inevitably these riders, no matter how much they try to avoid it, do end up having to deal with and defend themselves in the media. It must be bloody hard to hear and read negative and mostly by definition ill-informed (and we are) comments at a time when you are at your lowest and struggling. Its irrelevant that these riders are professionals or that some of them are on big money. The fact is that they still bleed red like the rest of us and skin can only be so thick.

We treat them like Gladiators and it says a lot about us as fans. I think this is much along the lines of what Casey was referring to as his reasons for retiring. Its hard to see it as fans but the for the riders it must be like dancing on a knife edge, everyone loves you when you are winning or on the way up but one slip and your throat gets slit. We are relentless!!!

I know this place is probably the least guilty of all the motorcycling forums on the net in regard to this phenomenon but it is still worth us keeping in mind that these guys are not really the supermen we believe them to be and our opinion can cut deep.

[phil]

I know this place is probably the least guilty of all the motorcycling forums on the net in regard to this phenomenon but it is still worth us keeping in mind that these guys are not really the supermen we believe them to be and our opinion can cut deep.

Well said that man.

[dave_m]

I know this place is probably the least guilty of all the motorcycling forums on the net in regard to this phenomenon but it is still worth us keeping in mind that these guys are not really the supermen we believe them to be and our opinion can cut deep.

Well said that man.

I'm in the group hoping it's just bad luck, and that he and his team can turn things around, but what is the internet for if not speculating on a topic we probably don't even know 5% of what's going on? It's one of the bigger stories of the season so far, and 4 races in it's impossible not to wonder what's going on. Even if it's not as big as Stoner retiring, it's a factory Yamaha ride so any silly season discussions naturally involve it.

He was awesome to watch in AMA and WSBK, I'm hoping he can bring the excitement again soon in MotoGP.